Forum Topic

benefits of controlling traffic

There's a good article in Wired today about how Oslo has benefitted so much from encouraging walking and cycling, and limiting car use.Google 'Wired Oslo' and you can find it.Some tidbits:-they've reduced pedestrian and cycling fatalities to zero(cf London: 79 fatalities in 2019...although obviously London is much larger)-high street shops are reporting more business, especially in the pedestrianized streets-pollution is down

Simon Pedley ● 2171d19 Comments

Yeh oslow Higher VAT Higher fuel cost 9 million less people Lower quality of life How about ramsgate I love it when people compare city v city as if it can work or be the same

Julian Pavey ● 2171d

I've been to Oslo. Comparing it with London is pretty pointless.

Bruce Hammal ● 2171d

Actually I've just remembered - when I was there they were digging up all the roads to make improvements to the tram system and it was really hard to get anywhere. To that extent it was comparable with Chiswick,.

Bruce Hammal ● 2171d

London has 15x the number of people than Oslo but only just over 3x the size in sq.km.What that means is the journey's in Oslo are, on average, a lot shorter and less crowded than for London. Then there is the issue of how is the city of Oslo actually structured.  London is effectively a series of small towns that just happen to connected together. This means that London has multiple high street shopping destinations, wildly dispersed entertainment and cultural venues etc (although obviously more in some parts than others).  I have never been to Oslo so I do not know whether Oslo has a similar structure or whether there is more of a definite centre to OsloSo what works for Oslo will not necessarily work for London

Justin Stephenson ● 2171d

The beer in Oslo is a lot more expensive.

Bruce Hammal ● 2171d

"..they were digging up all the roads to make improvements to the tram system..To that extent it was comparable with Chiswick."Chiswick 120 years ago, perhaps, when London United Tramways were extending and electrifying the system along CHR. Or 90-odd years ago, when they started to take out the tram rails in favour of trolleybuses. Good job there wasn't a CW4 in those days !

Richard Greenhough ● 2171d

Of course unlike Britain, Norway didn't blow all money that rolled in from North Sea Oil. They have the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world — 2018 valuation put it at 195.000 USD per citizen. This means that unlike here where a skint TfL is trying to build a major piece of infrastructure as cheaply as possible, the Norwegians can do it properly.

Bruce Hammal ● 2171d

SImon,Don't expect your good news to be welcomed. 'Yerbut it ain't Chiswick' is the usual response to ideas from elsewhere,

Ken Munn ● 2171d

Good urban design should always learn from others. London is Europe's largest city and as other posters noted an agglomeration of many urban centres that have fused over time. But these crass 'oh look at XX' don't achieve much at all other than muddy waters. Firstly, there are lots of roads and indeed motorways in and around Oslo, the centre is pretty modern and taxis make it very easy to get around the central areas or indeed beyond. There is also a good and extensive rail, bus and tram network. There are parts of the city centre that are car free but these are distinct shopping and more residential areas.Many areas have broad streets with plenty of room to accommodate the different users, from trams to bikes to pedestrians and cars. A lot of newer developments and areas are well planned with local shops and facilities such as schools etc to minimise car use. Taxis and cars are v expensive. In contrast to the completely piecemeal development in London which can see huge developments with little if any access local amenities.So the lesson is planning and design. If only Hounslow listened, or someone had the powers to force more coordinated development. But there is no 'plan' for traffic in W4, or indeed West London. Just a series of local closures and hope.

Paul Green ● 2171d

Seriously Ken, is that the best you can do? See my post, there are plenty of things we can learn, but good design and planned are key. Even the car free zones in the very central area of Oslo (residential population only 3k, so less than Grove Park) was amended to allow some cars and deliveries following... feedback and consultation. Are we comparing a European city centre with Chiswick?Have you even been to Oslo Ken? There are lots of large roads. I rode a bike in the country last year, is that helpful or informative. Again, there is no 'plan' in W4 or London. Lots of piecemeal schemes, boroughts do not talk to each other, they barely talk to TFL. We have skyscrapers being built with no parking but they will still generate lots of vehicular traffic. Any coordination? No

Paul Green ● 2171d

We should be looking at other cities.  We should be able to get inspiration from them and see how we can use various aspects to improve what we have to give those who are not driving cars a fairer share of the streets.  We can learn from other countries.  They have made and do make changes too.

Philippa Bond ● 2171d

I agree for once Philippa. That is my point. But to simply say, oh look Oslo has done this achieves nothing unless we understand how, the issues addressed, and the meaningful comparisons to London. If you go to Oslo for the first time, I suspect many will be surprised at the size of the major roads that go into or near the city centre. The car free zone is a very small area in the commercial old town centre.

Paul Green ● 2171d

Sadly there is little long term planning in this country which actually takes place, eg for many years it has been obvious that both Gunnersbury Station and Kew Bridge Station needed major improvements to cope with significant current and future increases in numbers of users. Has anything happened? No.Result more cars on the roads.

Chris Dakers ● 2171d

Philippa, I've made sugestions for Chiswick Hi Road elsewhere on this site.  Here's an idea, as TFL is broke, what's stopping Hounslow Council itself using all the millions of £'s it's collected in W4 traffic fines and spending it doubling/trebling the width of C.Hi Rd to accommodate segregated lanes for pedestrians, walkers, and cyclists to safely travel, well spaced apart during these troubling Covid virus times and on?  That's what Grant Shapps "bribe money" was for and what LBH keep saying is their aim.  At a stroke it would be "modernisation" with a super cycleways for the armies of cyclists who will appear hell bent on going to/from? ...; wide safe pavements (not sure what pedestrians be doing though as no small shops to browse but hey, it's progress folks; bus-lanes with pull-ins and bus-shelters; wide lanes for other motorised traffic, including emergency vehicles.  Easily achieved - Hounslow Council just needs to do what it is so expert at - demolition!  Knock down all the trees, homes & businesses on one side of the High Road from Kew Bridge to the traffic lights junction with King Street, Hammersmith?  It won't be cheap but the people of Chiswick can afford it cash cows that they are! Seems a huge price to pay just so - how many cyclists? can pedal/race in safe splendor alongside a now brand new dual carriage way from Kew Bridge up to Chiswick roundabout, along C.Hi Rd to King Street where Hammersmith Council take over.    Inevitably there would be an almighty traffic build-up when dual multi lane road reaches those Goldhawk Rd/King Street traffic lights - what to do???    Ooops, that's where there may be a fly in the ointment - no guarantees Hammersmith would agree to continue with this drastic road-widening to where exactly?  Would H&F want to inflict such upheaval and expense on their residents and businesses?  Especially as a few yards to the south there is the A4 motorway with a cyclelane already in place, might need a few tweaks but there it is.

Jennifer Selig ● 2170d

There could be so much agreement here, if the basic lessons learned from other projects were taken on board. Take for example the case studies below. Look at the “Success Factors” for each. Working in partnership with communities is the big basic learning.https://ec.europa.eu/environment/pubs/pdf/streets_people.pdf

Russell Pearson ● 2170d

I’ve walked all over London: every page of the A-Z. It strikes me that the best bits have grown organically and the areas that are not so nice have been the result of planning.

Vivienne Cox ● 2170d

Well said Russell - working in partnership, sharing the vision....

Mandy Waters ● 2166d

There's an article in the Daily Mail that says the cycle lanes are used so little that Implementing then has cost £5,000 per cyclist

Claire Moran ● 2166d

Totally agree with Philippa use the precious space we have to the benefit of all the cycle lane should run along the A4 that’s much better space for cyclists. I believe there were many people supporting this yet Hounslow council ignored this and as a result created chaos, affected local trade who make up a big part of our community.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2166d