Forum Topic

Fishers Lane Morons

I see that morons are still driving along Fishers Lane. Fine them.

Carl Wynne ● 2181d66 Comments

Oh dear. Another selfish self entitled zealot.

Sarah Potter ● 2181d

Sermon on the Chiswick Cash Cow Mount. And Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Death (hitherto known as Chiswick High road ) I shall fear no evil, because mine is the kingdom, the powerful, the glorious Church of the Bike,  my life in Lycra is more pure and worthy than yours and I sayeth unto you, for although it is indeed easier to passthrough the eye of a needle than getting about Chiswick these days, Cast off your Cycle clips and Walk!  My way is the high way and if you don’t like it then verily you can – guess what – Get on your Bike.

Sarah Potter ● 2181d

Good one

Jennifer Selig ● 2181d

Oh dear - is Carl Wynne really Steve Taylor ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2181d

Fine these self-entitled, selfish and dangerous idiots!

Philippa Bond ● 2181d

Very good, Sarah!

Claire Moran ● 2181d

Agreed Carl, sick of this, 3 cars up behind us and the kids today, on their essential lockdown drives, ignoring the signs. A couple I spoke to the other day said 'yes we know, we just  don't agree with it' I think time for  a petition to enforce if people can't control their anti-social behaviour instincts. There's a huge uptake in family cycling and walking of this route now (none in lycra you loon Sarah) and it's really selfish behaviour on the part of the transgressors. 

John Hall ● 2181d

Yep totally agree, fine them .... along with cyclists on pavements or those who go through red lights, people who don’t wear masks on the underground.. I could go on ....

Mark Perry ● 2181d

Yes, it isn't that we are a freedom loving country it is more that we are a country with a considerable number of selfish and self-centred lawless idiots.

Philippa Bond ● 2181d

Indeed there are Philippa, of whom quite a few are the 'C' word...😉

Loraine Pemberton ● 2181d

In a line of traffic this afternoon watched a lycra bummed cyclist obviously on some sort of an adrenalin high overtake two cyclists stopped at the red lights and just keep on riding on through the light.  Yes, he should be fined too.

Philippa Bond ● 2181d

Sorry, but good on those who carry on driving down Fisher's Lane - it is an important artery to the High Street, and with Acton Lane closed one way, the obvious way for those living in North Chiswick to get across Chiswick or beyond. Most people are against the closure of this road to cars, and as far as I can see, there is absolutely no need for it. The signage is poor, and with the mini roundabout still in place, it is almost inviting people to use it. If cyclists are worried about not having enough space to share this road with car users, then try the CHR instead - you have a third of it to yourselves...

Mark Edwards ● 2180d

To be honest I wish they would start fining everyone just wandering about or driving for zero reason during lockdown. It's making me annoyed that shops have to suffer, but every idiot can be out in mass just standing around or driving about blasting music. Either lockdown or open the shops and resume to normality.

chris poole ● 2180d

Well they won't mind paying the fines then.

Carl Wynne ● 2180d

with you all the way, Carl.....

Stuart Kerr ● 2180d

I am too. I am absolutely sick of watching all these people and cars out today as if we are not in a lockdown. I mean personally I am not trying to be a Scrooge, as I don't want to be in a lockdown. But what is the point if no one follows it and then you have some that are.Fine them. If they want to drive around in circles as I have been watching or just wander around in large groups with slurpies and flowers. Just fine them and send them packing with a warning.

chris poole ● 2180d

If there was a camera catching people on Fishers Lane then I’d be really up for car drivers paying £60+ for the privilege of being able to ignore the restrictions that the vast majority of car drivers in the area respect.And if they want to keep doing it day in day out, more power to their steering wheels. In due course they might have to sell their vehicles to pay the fines, so win, win.

Andrew Jones ● 2180d

I agree if you are going to impose a restriction then it should be enforced otherwise you are just creating a short cut for the unprincipled.However, the chances are at the moment that a substantial proportion of people driving through the underpass are unaware of the restriction. The signs remain inadequate and if someone has made the same journey habitually before they will not be conditioned to be looking out for changes.Most of the people fined on TGT will have had no idea they were infringing a restriction. It has been estimated that over half of PCNs across London are paid by minicab drivers, self employed delivery drivers and people working in the building trade. They don't set out to ignore the rules and the fines, if you regard them as a tax, mean they are effectively paying a higher rate overall than people on six figure salaries.We probably have to expect that in the coming years we will see a proliferation of fine issuing cameras as local authorities look to deal with a massive financial deficit. It is probably not a good idea to get enthusiastic about fining people this way because if a low bar is set for councils as to when they can get money from people, the chances are that most of us will infringe unknowingly at some point.

Paul Corcoran ● 2180d

If it makes you happy Mark, I got fined for cycling through a red light.

Simon Pedley ● 2180d

Good I wish more fines were handed out to cyclists who jump red lights, pelican crossings, cycling on pavements etc would you not agree Simon.

James Smith-Jones ● 2180d

Well, since you ask:1) Jumping red lights, I agree.2) But I don't think people should be fined if they cycle entirely considerately on pavements. I feel that fining considerate behaviour that doesn't cause any trouble for anyone is petty and beneath the law, and we should be encouraging cycling for 1001 reasons, not discouraging it (for the similar reasons, I don't think people should be fined for driving at 71mph, or standing 1.9 metres part in the park). Many people find cycling on roads very terrifying, with good reason. 3) I do think that inconsiderate cycling on pavements should be fined though.

Simon Pedley ● 2180d

I was trying not to get drawn in to this post, but when can cycling on the pavement ever be considered considerate ?

Maggie Dodge ● 2180d

Surely it's a contradiction in terms because cycling on pavements is not considerate to Pedestrians.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2180d

But if the pavement is empty and there are no pedestrians using it ? I think the case as to whether particular examples of pavement cycling are considerate or inconsiderate is rather like the current VAR/handball argument in football - very much in the eye of the beholder.

Richard Greenhough ● 2180d

It's very tempting to run a red light at night when there are no other cars on the road, but its not legal, and I didn't think cycling on the pavement was ever legal. Cyclists are meant to be on the road, I don't see an argument for them being on the pavement sorry.

Maggie Dodge ● 2180d

Paul, agree with your second paragraph and this is why the signage should have been clear from the start.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

The following guidance for police was issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers:"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other pavement users."Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Michael Robinson ● 2180d

Even if there is a cycle lane Michael.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

Yes Janice.  Discretion is a good operative word..Clearly, there are some cyclists weaving a path around pedestrians on the CHR pavements who need pulling-up and fined.  Not that many but enough to constantly aggravate.  They do it because they get away with it.  Mostly they're teens and twenties but not always.  There are determined gits out there who get the vast majority a bad name.On the other hand Richard has a very good point.  And I'm also very happy to see mums and dads cycling very slowly with their tots on our quiet residential pavements.  Young kids shouldn't be out on the dangerous roads but need to learn how to ride a bike.Meanwhile the many car drivers who let their side down are far more dangerous.  Especially when running the lights.  And incredibly selfish considering they're sitting down comfortably in the warm.  Many's the time I've watched in amazement as cars driving into CHR from side roads – even in the piddling rain - barge and shove their way through the pedestrians. .. Old ladies pulling trolleys, mums with prams, old buggers with walking sticks …  and still there are drivers a'plenty thinking me first!

Stuart Kerr ● 2180d

So if there is a perfectly adequate cycle lane cyclists will still not be fine for cycling on the pavement, well I never imagine that was the case, children an exception of course.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

Oh so that makes it ok for cars to drive on empty pavements if stuck in traffic! "pavement"a raised paved or asphalted path for pedestrians at the side of a road "road"a wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface which vehicles can use. "bicycle"a vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel. nuff said

James Smith-Jones ● 2180d

It's good to know why nothing is done about it.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

As a matter of actual law, it is illegal to cycle on pavements. As for running red lights, today I watched three cyclists do just that at Goldhawk Road all of whom were headed east. One zigged and zagged his way from the middle of CHR between several cars in both directions in order to get where he wanted to go.That intersection is now less safe for cyclists (Hi, Paul). They have removed the advance stop and thus a refuge area for cyclists particularly those headed east. Those headed north rarely, if ever, stopped to wait for the green arrow. Now cars trying to turn left must look out for east-bound cyclists where before it wasn't as much of an issue. I'm not sure what to make of west-bound cyclists who suddenly dart across all lanes of traffic in both directions to turn right on to Goldhawk as the light has just changed and traffic has begun to move.

David Lesniak ● 2180d

Don't forget there are pavements which are shared with cyclists and the only time you notice is when they ride into you (worse if they approach from behind and you can't hear them because of the noise of the traffic on the road) or you happen to look up and be near one of the round blue signs on a pole telling you that.  There is often nothing on the actual pavement you are walking along to indicate that it is shared with what can be frighteningly speedy wheeled vehicles.

Philippa Bond ● 2180d

'As a matter of actual law, it is illegal to cycle on pavements'True unless signposted as a shared pavement (hi rude Hyde park couple).  Examples of shared pavements are the A316, Chiswick Bridge and part of Hyde Park. I recently had to patiently explain to a hostile couple who screamed at me in Hyde Park whilst they were standing a few feet away from the pavement shared sign.

Matthew Swain ● 2180d

Michael, you say "responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic" If you are keeping an eye on the various discussions, you will have noted people like myself have argued that we do not want to be forced to cycle because we are nervous and don't feel safe.  We therefore choose not to cycle.  Is that worth considering, rather than breaking the law?

Maggie Dodge ● 2180d

Maggie, I didn't say this.  I am just repeating what was said by the Association of Chief Police Officers.As the statement makes clear, instructions to police are to not enforce cycling on the pavement rigorously, but apply discretion. The rest of your statement seems to be contradictory... if you are choosing to do something then you are hardly being forced, are you?

Michael Robinson ● 2180d

I can well understand some cyclists being terrified to cycle in the road.  But like Maggie says, that's no excuse or reason to take to the pavement.What it is though is a very clear indication how much effort and money needs to be spent on making roads feel safe for cycling on...

Stuart Kerr ● 2180d

Stuart, they were provided cycle lanes for safety and not using them are you saying the cycle lanes are not safe, just trying to understand the logic here.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

Michael, I don't know how you got that so wrong. maybe on purpose.  Stewart you seem to have understood, thank you.  Have you seen how much money has been spent on making roads better for cyclist.  I think safety is to some extent in the hands of the cyclists.  If they insist on jumping red lights, not wearing hi viz, not indicating, riding with no hands whilst texting, cycling too fast, racing each other etc etc then I don't understand why we should spend an inordinate amount of money if they won't make the effort.  Whilst I appreciate this is not all cyclists, I would imagine the percentage is quite high. Families with very young children,  cycling either on the road or on the pavement might be considered better parents if they took their children for a walk to a local park. Far more healthy exercise-wise and safer.

Maggie Dodge ● 2180d

Personally think if people had realise the cycle lanes would not be made full use of, many more would have oppose them.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

If you don't mind, I'll leave the logic in your capable hands Janice...What I would suggest though is it seems there are some on here who are so dead set against cycling and cyclists that myopia's set in - so deep there's little point in discussion..Besides, this 'aint my territory cos I don't ride a bike – far too scary...

Stuart Kerr ● 2180d

"Whilst I appreciate this is not all cyclists, I would imagine the percentage is quite high."This is very true. And these are the cyclists who mostly end up in accidents. And those accidents drive the perception that cycling is unsafe (which is a wrong perception - cycling is safe if you don't do all those things and concentrate on safety rather than keeping momentum.) And this perception drives lobbying for more money for 'cycling infrastructure' which is not being used - too many cyclists still ride on the roads with traffic, or on pavement, jump red lights, etc... loop closed(((.

Alex Shpinkov ● 2180d

I'm not against cycling at all, although don't cycle on the roads or paths, we go to a cycle park, I understand the need for change also, but trying to understand these cycle lanes not being used does my head ina bit and all I'm moaning about a little.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

Janice, the old cycle lanes on CHR were lines marked on the road between the parking spaces and the main carriageway. They were particularly vulnerable to parked motorists who opened their doors without bothering to look over their shoulder first to see if any cyclists were approaching. Hotspots such as the Hammersmith Gyratory were highly unsafe for cyclists; even if you followed the marked cycle routes across Fulham Palace Road going east, the route back west was a nightmare trying to ride a middle route between traffic heading down FPR and traffic heading for the A4. Hopefully the new lanes are a marked improvement on those. However cyclists who have tried using the old ones may need a little time to gain confidence that the new ones are safer.

Richard Greenhough ● 2180d

"What I would suggest though is it seems there are some on here who are so dead set against cycling and cyclists..."I think you are right. And I think this is a result of the recent bullying actions from the cycling lobby.

Alex Shpinkov ● 2180d

"Have you seen how much money has been spent on making roads better for cyclist."So far in Chiswick there has been about 50m of protected track along the S Circular, some wands and temporary islands along Chiswick High Rd and errrr…. that's it.This is peanuts compared to the £35M on power road bridge or £100M on Hammersmith flyover or £141M for Hammersmith bridge...If car drivers insist on breaking the speed limit, ignoring road signs, killing and inuring thousands every year, why is all this money being spent on them?

Michael Robinson ● 2180d

Hi Paul, I agree that it’s likely a significant number of those caught on TGT weren’t aware they were transgressing. Personally I think the signage near Fishers Lane is much better and a higher proportion of those going through know full well about the restrictions. Doesn’t help that my iPhone nav still instructs me to turn left into Fishers Lane from South Parade either.If only there was a way of fining just those who are fully aware and sending out warnings to the unwary.

Andrew Jones ● 2180d

I'd like to think that people complaining about people not using an unfinished unopened cycle lane blocked by cones and barriers and workers' cars and vans was peak Forum. But it won't be.

Paul Campbell ● 2180d

But still it has successfully diverted attention from the drivers who will need to be fined before they start obeying the rules on Fishers Lane.

Paul Campbell ● 2180d

A long time ago I spent a lot of time as a new driver never turning right across the traffic if I could help it.  Also parking in a space at the end of roads so that I did not have to park between two cars particularly when there was following traffic which made you nervous and more likely to make a mess of it.  So it is the same with cycling you have to learn how to cross the traffic in order to turn right down the road you want to go down - you can't just follow the cycle lanes - so you can't just expect cyclists to travel in the lanes.All motorists should learn the Dutch Reach so that they do not open their car doors into the path of oncoming cyclists.  Hopefully this will become part if it isn't already of an updated Highway Code - another reason why drivers should take refresher courses.

Philippa Bond ● 2180d

"All motorists should learn the Dutch Reach so that they do not open their car doors into the path of oncoming cyclists"Agree in principle, but when significant numbers of people seem unable to manage to wear a mask or practice social distancing during a pandemic, the chances of getting everyone to use the Dutch Reach are pretty low. Any motorist with a  modicum of common sense would already be checking behind them before opening their door into a cycle lane, even if only to guard their own paintwork.

Richard Greenhough ● 2180d

Negotiating traffic to take a turning while cycling is correct and accept that, it's cycling on paths when cycle lanes are empty, the lanes that are open obviously.

Janice Evans ● 2180d

Paul Campbell wins best comment of the week.

Simon Pedley ● 2180d

In a way I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.One reason for putting in cycle lanes is to make potential cyclists feel confident it’s safe to cycle ... but plenty of cycle lanes appear to not actually be that safe. If the cycle lanes aren’t safe, it’s fairly pointless putting them in, and irresponsible to insist cyclists use them.Hence some cyclists who are responsible (rather than just the minority Lycra lout brigade beloved by those posters who choose to tar all cyclists with the same brush) opt to use the road or pavement.

Andrew Jones ● 2180d

So Paul Campbell in his usual style said:'I'd like to think that people complaining about people not using an unfinished unopened cycle lane blocked by cones  and barriers and workers' cars and vans was peak Forum.But it won't be.'Then we had Michael R saying: 'If car drivers insist on breaking the speed limit, ignoring road signs, killing and inuring thousands every year, why is all this money being spent on them?'FOr the must stupid and OTT comment to date I think Michael wins the prize. Lets think about his post for a moment. Some drivers break the speed limit and dont see road signs, this is an issue. Though lets be honest speed limits are arbitrary and confusing.More generally, no drivers 'INSIST' on killing or injuring people. In fact, according to EU data, our roads are amongst the safest in Europe, second only to Sweden. So some perspective is neededOf course efforts are need to reduce accident and injuries/ fatalities. I would love to see more traffic police if the Tory cuts are reversed. But vehicles and the internal combustion engine have been a huge driver of growth and prosperity in the 20th century across the world, as well as giving people huge leisure and social opportunities. The constant demonisation of vehicles does not help. Electric vehicles and more autonomy will be part of the solution. In terms of the money spent on roads, I wonder how he and Paul think the food gets into the shops, houses get built, tradespeople get around, home deliveries happen (from beds and sofas to smaller items), how emergency vehicles get around, how factories get raw materials and then their products to stores. We need roads.Yes we need to reduce emissions and improve road safety. But random local road closures and narrowing already congested routes is not helping. It would be a useful starting point to stop the obsessive demonising of all and anyone who gets in a vehicle. Grow up

Paul Green ● 2180d

Well put Paul G. The Fishers Lane Morons need to be held to task.

Russell Pearson ● 2180d

Great post, Mr Green. I hope you are being as eloquent on Twitter to Shapps et al.

Claire Moran ● 2180d

Paul, you obviously missed that I was playing Maggie Dodge’s  ‘why should we spend money on cyclists when they break the law’ comment back to her, except substituting cars, to see if anyone took the bait.You duly obliged.

Michael Robinson ● 2179d

Spot on Sarah anyone who thinks they have the right to ignore traffic rules is, as you say, selfish and self entitled

John Stroud ● 2179d

Totally agree Michael... absolutely clear to me that you were extending Maggie’s logic to cars to demonstrate it was nonsensical.Surprised Paul couldn’t grasp this - or was he just trying to score points and playing to the anti-cyclist crowd?

Andrew Jones ● 2179d

Michael, this 'you took the bait' thing is childish on social media and on here. If you post something the mean it or at least tell us you don't. These posts are typical of the smug and condescending attitude the enlightended few display to the rest of us.I think your post does actually show your mentality and the constant demonisation of anyone who gets into a vehicle, so I fully stand by most post. It is interesting that you always talk about cars, but many of the vehicles I saw in recent weeks sat in jams were buses and commercial.

Paul Green ● 2179d

"anyone who thinks they have the right to ignore traffic rules is, as yanyone who thinks they have the right to ignore traffic rules is, as you say, selfish and self entitledou say, selfish and self entitled"Pay attention, folks.We now have John Stround on the record saying anyone who ignores traffic rules as being selfish and self entitled.As we all know, that includes cyclists. Ergo, John Stroud thinks cyclists who ride the pavements and run red lights are selfish and self entitled. Seems like progress to me.Note to John: populism died last Saturday.

David Lesniak ● 2179d

No such signage on Chiswick High Road, Matt. But you konw that.Getting shouted at is no fun, is it? Happens all the time here in Chiswick to pedestrians who call out cyclists who use the pavement which is, as you say, illegal in this instance.

David Lesniak ● 2179d

A camera was installed today on South Parade to capture cars coming out of the Fishers Lane underpass. Not sure if this got flagged on other threads

Jane Kirby ● 2178d

That’s not going to film the morons who closed the road though, unless they pootle up on some hired Bromptons.

Russell Pearson ● 2178d