Forum Topic

'Ere we go again.

Look like tin hat and Anderson shelter again for a while.I have often wondered how those toiling on a minimum wage have coped earning 80% or less of salary and then having to fill in the labyrinthine Universal Credit form to try to get somewhere near the fortune(!) they were on before.Why not pay ALL workers the first £9ph without reduction, and then start the reduction calculation from there,maybe paying 60% instead of 66% perhaps?

Keith Iddon ● 2190d38 Comments

Good job we don't have a lefty labour government in power that was proposing a circuit break two weeks ago eh c james?

Andrew Jones ● 2190d

The time for a 2 week circuit break was 2 months ago. But only the scientists were saying that (not the Oxford ones!) - none of the political parties dared say that because it was not populistSo they dither, delay and hope - it goes out of control - thousands more will  die.And instead of 2 week lockdown expect one at least to Xmas and probably beyond

Richard Potts ● 2190d

Two weeks ago was still way too late so Sir Witchfinder General Sturmer was wrong as well.

Basil Finnis ● 2190d

How can he possibly be wrong? He is a barrister.

Brian Coyle ● 2190d

After accepting the advice of his scientific advisors and going for a belated lockdown why does Johnson feel the need to end his speech with flatulence about how things will soon be rosier? Has he not learnt from his many earlier false promises such as " world-beating testing regimes"?

John Connelly ● 2190d

Johnson doesn’t behave like a statesman. He should have spoken first and announced the lockdown (even if we all knew about it by then) and then handed over to the scientists to give the data backing the decision. Instead he hid behind them. And why can he not speak a whole sentence to camera, but is forever looking at his notes?

Vivienne Cox ● 2190d

I'm thinking he has pitch this right as things go quiet during November for business that is generally and if can open up come December, will helpthe economy, also most elderly people want to see their family over Christmas if possible.  Sorry to have a different view of things.

Janice Evans ● 2190d

No mention of track and trace. It cost £12 billion. He was told to do this ages ago.

Stewart Jones ● 2190d

I think it was done in the right way. Presen the evidence which leads to the obvious but belated  conclusion. And we need all the optimism we can get even if specious.

Claire Moran ● 2190d

The scientists are at loggerheads on the data interpretation. Kings College London has now joined Oxford. Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College: ‘we want to reassure people that cases have not spiralled out of control, as has been recently reported from other surveys.’

Russell Pearson ● 2190d

Stewart, think I said very early on people don't have up to date phones or enough data to download Apps,  if contacting us by Apps it will not workEven if up and running.  Do they only contact us via Apps ? ?

Janice Evans ● 2190d

Or should it be text and trace, would reach more people.

Janice Evans ● 2190d

I was hoping to highlight how those on the minimum wage as  assessed by the state could reasonably be expected to accept  less, as if there were a new minimum.

Keith Iddon ● 2190d

Just as I feared..no sympathy(empathy way too much to expect) for the low paid in this this parish.

Keith Iddon ● 2189d

I think the government has been incredibly generous, one of the best support packages in the world which we will all being paying back in taxes for years. Whatever the government do it’s never enough for some people.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2189d

Some people are just never happy with anything.

Janice Evans ● 2189d

I take it that neither of you have had to live on the minimum wage or 66% of it.

Keith Iddon ● 2189d

what can we do about it.

Janice Evans ● 2189d

Lefties, please remember that whatever is paid out will need to be repaid at a later date.Should it be a Labour government next who will be to blame for tax rises. The Conservatives or the Labour party?If I remember correctly the last Labour administration left with the words "sorry there is no more money"Could be a bit of a problem!

Jeffrey Cope ● 2189d

Pull the ladder up after you.

Keith Iddon ● 2189d

Righties (is that even a word?), try to remember that macro economics and country level debt is not the same as household debt. I know its complex stuff but there are other tools to apply to address excessive national debt. Two immediate options are inflation (ok, not always a good option but very effective) and growth. Especially export growth.Oops, the righties trashed our manufacturing base and then there's something about trade with the EU coming up so export growth might prove tricky. Well its inflation then.

Alan Clark ● 2189d

Cloud cuckoo land

Jeffrey Cope ● 2189d

Sir, you really need to expand on your assertions. Claiming that recommendations are dubious is fine. Go ahead. I assume you have substance for your claim. Please explain.Otherwise you are an empty vessel.

Alan Clark ● 2189d

Pot and kettle?

Russell Pearson ● 2189d

Again, please explain and expound. I’m sure you think you’ve a point to make but in order to do so...you need to articulate. Thanks

Alan Clark ● 2189d

£12 billion on an app that doesn’t work. No penalty clause.

Stewart Jones ● 2189d

Spot on Jayne. Portugal was 50% and hence why their hard working population loved going back to work. Unlike a manager level staff member I know of who refused to return to work in August “because by the time I’ve paid my train fare and lunch I’m better staying on furlough” - I doubt he’s found a job yet with that attitude ....... and all whilst many company owners are working their arses off for nothing or 50% pay and below to keep afloat and their staff in jobs / on furlough - Keith Iddon get real please.

Mark Talbot ● 2188d

From the very start of this back in March I couldn't quite understand why there were still planes coming in to the country but we were being told to stay indoors. Had we closed the airports and ALL stayed at home for 2 Months I can't help thinking we wouldn't be in this situation now. We are an island so it's much easier to isolate as a country, as New Zealand did.Personally I think keeping schools open is ridiculous too. Either we ALL stay at home or we don't. It's pointless hiding inside when our children are out there mingling and bringing the plague back to us. It's sending the wrong signal to teenagers - in particular our 16 year old who is convinced the Govt aren't taking this seriously at all.

Chris Blackwell ● 2188d

Of children that get COVID, a very small proportion suffer any symptoms at all and even fewer suffer severe symptoms.  What evidence there is (and I accept that it is patchy and equivocal) suggests that they don't spread the disease either - presumably because if they're not showing symptoms, then their viral load is low so they're not breathing out much.The situation is quite different with outbreaks of flu or measles, where it is clear that children are spreaders.Any spreading of COVID is more likely to come from adults associated with schools - teachers and parents picking up / dropping off children.  As some commentator said - the problem is the staffroom, not the classroom.  However, we should be able to expect adults to take appropriate distancing measures.So, given the overwhelming evidence of the huge damage that is done to children's future well-being by interruptions to education (from any cause, not just COVID), and that such damage is not recoverable it seems to me that keeping schools open is the right balance.

Andrzej Kowalski ● 2188d

'Get real please..' I am completely 'real'. Perhaps if you understood what I am advocating will cost no more to the treasury and save time and money for government because those workers on minimum wage would not have to apply for UC to top up from 66%,you might be less dismissive.

Keith Iddon ● 2188d

There is an unknown but significant proportion of children who are asymptomatic but it’s an exaggeration  to say only a small proportion of children suffer symptoms. Children who do have symptoms shed as much virus as adults though seemingly for a shorter time. But there are significant differences between primary age children and teenagers especially older teenagers hence the spread in universities. Currently teenagers and adults under 24 have the highest rate of infection with an estimated 2 to 3 % of these age groups currently infected, more than twice that for adults over 50. I think it’s likely these age groups are spreading it between themselves not picking it up from older adults. So whilst I agree that in primary schools transmission is mostly via adults I doubt this is true in secondaries especially for older children such as Chris’ 16 year old. I ought to declare an interest here as a teacher who works with 16-19 year olds. I rather resent that commentators glibness about the problem being in the staff room. Many teachers will be working Indoors in poorly ventilated rooms with groups of 30 or so older teenagers and not a mask in sight despite, like everyone else, beIng banned from visiting relatives of any age. And all  seemingly without a thought being given to their health or risk.

David Turner ● 2188d

I was referring to your sympathy / empathy comment not your maths.

Mark Talbot ● 2188d

Chris is right. This virus needs a.host. If it were possible for everyone to stay apart for a fortnight it would die. But we could have managed nearer that in March. In Tokyo if you were a contact, you were sent to a hotel to be monitored and looked after. How many people in this country have been properly tracked and efficiently isolated?

Vivienne Cox ● 2188d

Fair do's Mark,I was just a little underwhelmed by the seeming indifference to those already working on a very low wage.Most people furloughed on 80% of salary would be earning more than them after the reduction I would think, and in many cases much more.If there is an identified minimum wage, that means it's the lowest that anyone can earn and be expected to function as a worker.The government should ensure that everyone earns that,and anything above that reduced at a recalculated rate.

Keith Iddon ● 2188d

Thanks Keith. I suppose the question is whether 80% is enough when you don’t have travel costs to / from work and only able to spend on essential goods whilst under house arrest? Like I said earlier the Portuguese managed on 50% and I had direct knowledge of staff in 2 businesses who wanted to stay on furlough as they were better off which can’t be right can it?

Mark Talbot ● 2188d

No it's not right, Mark.The commitment shown by employers and government toward keeping people in job has to be a two way street,and employees must be  willing to step back into the breech. I would imagine the vast majority were and still are willing,some possibly grumbling a bit which probably has as much to do with being on low wages in some cases.I would imagine many employers,especially those running a small business, have long memories and will remember those who have co-operated and those who haven't.I am very pro business and as well as being pro-employee.I believe in busy high streets and buy as little on the internet as possible, haven't bought anything on it for 6 months I would say.

Keith Iddon ● 2187d

In my opinion we either lock down or we don't and there should be middle ground. We do it or we don't. Close the airports, schools, universities, shops, everything for two weeks and everybody stay at home and watch Netflix or whatever. Everybody stop. I understand that CV-19 will not just go away but surely it's better to drastically reduce the number of cases over Winter when the NHS have flu and pneumonia to add to the confusion rather than to keep having recurring lockdowns every few months? Businesses are just beginning to recover from the last lock down and many won't make it through this next one. And as for Govt advice and guidelines ... it's just too confusing. Are we supposed to work from home unless we can’t in which case do we go to work or not? Are we supposed to avoid public transport but not drive either because we are causing congestion on Chiswick High Road?It needs a decisive “Stop everything and stay at home” and anything less is not good enough. It’s reached the point where teenagers have pretty much dismissed Govt rulings with an apathetic “What’s the point when we are all at school and mingling anyway”.

Chris Blackwell ● 2187d

We would need plenty of warning to get everything we need for the two weeks and everyone would have to be given medicines they need as all supermarkets and chemists etc. would have to close for it to work.

Janice Evans ● 2187d