Forum Topic

Unwelcome sight for Park Road residents this morning

In some ways you have to admire the chutzpah of the council for sneaking in at night and sealing off the road. However, overall it seems to be a sign of the plot having been well and truly lost. I struggle to understand Hanif Khan's rationale for not wanting to go with an ANPR camera based solution which seems the obvious compromise. The 'administrative burden' of having to register a vehicle is surely outweighed by the 'sheer waste of time' burden in having to drive a much greater distance everyday to get to your home including through streets which are supposed to be part of a low traffic neighbourhood.

Francis Rowe ● 2221d112 Comments

In Hammersmith & Fulham you don’t need to register - they exempt all people in the relevant CPZ and connect up to DVLA to add those with a car registered at an address in the zone. Others can apply for access. Essential services etc also added. In Grove Park, only 2 small CPZ will be able to go in via Hartington Road soon. They need to register on a new database in addition to their CPZ one, and add all their car details and proof of address etc. Then someone  has to administer it all.

Russell Pearson ● 2221d

Why would you need to register anyway?Just set the logic to ticket anyone who passes two cameras in too short a time frame.  For residents going somewhere, or returning home, they should only pass one camera anyway.

Al Webber ● 2221d

As I walked past Park road/Staveley- there were at least 9 people working - pulling up a perfectly good bit of road- I said to 5 of them just standing there - ‘ is this really how a strapped council is wasting our money’ they looked away .. appaulling.

Helen Bamberger ● 2221d

Two abandoned days of work were the real waste of council money.

Paul Scullion ● 2221d

Francis - I agree it is hard to understand the rationale for not going for some form of ANPR solution.  In a few weeks an ANPR solution will be applied to Hartington Road, Thames Rd and the school end of Staveley Rd. So why impose a second-rate solution on this junction that will simply divert through traffic into quiet residential streets.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2221d

I completely accept that Staveley Road has become a rat run for vehicles wanting to avoid Hogarth's roundabout.  I suspect that most of the traffic is from the A316 to Sutton Court Road not the other way.  So the obvious question is why did the Council simply prohibit left turn from A316 onto SCR? (backed up with enforcement cameras).But the next question - an equally obvious one - is where does the Council think the traffic which would have used Staveley Road will go.  For those trying to get to the A4 from the A316 there are only 2 options: up Hartingdon Road (with its obvious accident blackspot, sorry I mean beautifully designed road calming chicane), over the railway bridge and onto SCR or going along to Hogarth's roundabout.Both options have major issues. SCR is already overloaded with traffic and the section of the A316 from Staveley Rd to the roundabout is not the best, being a little narrow and poorly maintained (as a cyclist that section is puncture central due to the lack of maintenance)

Justin Stephenson ● 2221d

The funny thing is cllr. Hearn I walked past you a couple of days ago and you were watching the traffic in the early morning with someone else and I heard you say to him ‘ no one seems to be speeding’ - I just wonder with all this money being spent at this awful time - do you think it sensible ?  I can think of so many more things that this money could be well spent.

Helen Bamberger ● 2221d

That’s the SotG one. Hartington is no access in, unless you’re on the guest list. All others get a whopping great fine just for driving past Roko gym. The camera will be by the Quay, cost £20,000. Then there will be another camera at Thames Road, another £20,000. It will be paired with another at the Kew end, £20,000. If you drive in and out between these in a set time, then that’s a fine too. They have to find the money in case Grant Shapps tells em to remove them as they fall foul of his intentions, so these fines will really help.

Russell Pearson ● 2221d

Hartington is a no go unless you’re in 2 small CPZ nearby and register - please see my reply to Al.

Russell Pearson ● 2221d

The monitored speeds back in November showed (from memory) average speeds of 25 mph so logically many drivers must have been exceeding the 20 mph limit.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2221d

Really comes to something very unsavory when the Council has to sneak out in the middle of then night to make alterations against local residents wishes - and presumably pay the workers steep overtime rates on top!

Jennifer Selig ● 2221d

Just wonder cllr what side you are on.  I ask you please to inform us - What do you think about this complete travesty and do you think this is a complete waste of our money- it would be good to know.

Helen Bamberger ● 2221d

JS: "Really comes to something very unsavory when the Council has to sneak out in the middle of then night to make alterations against local residents wishes - and presumably pay the workers steep overtime rates on top!"I am not local to Park Road and have no view either way on this scheme. But LBH having determined to implement the changes come-what-may, would you have been happier had they done so during daytime hours when traffic is so much busier, thereby adding to congestion and delay etc?Especially since doing it all in one night possibly makes the job cheaper, even at overtime rates, than if done over the course of a couple of days.

Richard Cathcart ● 2221d

If you think that's bad - bollards have suddenly appeared on Twickenham Road separating cyclists from the rest of the traffic and thereby narrowing an already overly congested road. And making access to West Mid hospital so awkward for the Ambulance service - there is nowhere for drivers to pull aside to let emergency vehicles pass! They have also placed bollards in Park Rd which has the rear access to WMUH! As far as we can tell no consultation with LAS was done prior to this bonkers and dangerous idea. Apparently this is to promote healthier lifestyles - the fact you might die because an ambulance cannot get access to a hospital doesn't matter! Really healthy!

Vanessa Smith ● 2221d

Talk about democracy Vanessa -  no wonder are becoming angrier.

Helen Bamberger ● 2221d

Interesting that our local council lot hasn’t answered my questions yet- I will wait and see.

Helen Bamberger ● 2221d

HelenDon't hold your breath ...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2221d

will this rat run work? - Burlington Lane, Staveley Road, Park Road, Chesterfield road, SCR, A4

Simeon Gill ● 2221d

"the fact you might die because an ambulance cannot get access to a hospital doesn't matter!"The despots / Stasi at Hounslow House would probably call this collateral damage or a 'blip'  in the system as long as it achieves their goal of grid-locking traffic and making travel as unpleasant as possible.

Steve Taylor ● 2221d

Yes Lorraine I think I might die if I hold my breath!! Why can’t ‘people say what they think... Are they so afraid of their jobs a bit of honesty would be great - especially when things are so bad.

Helen Bamberger ● 2221d

How are residents of North Chiswick now allowed to actually leave the A316 from out of London journeys in order to reach home??We can’t go up to Hogarth roundabout and exit there as Devonshire Road, THT and Fishers Lane are closed. Are we supposed to continue on the A4 all the way to Hammersmith and then come back along Bath Road?

Alice Sheridan ● 2221d

The good news is that it won't make it more difficult for Brentford and London Irish fans to get to matchday parking at Strand on the Green School. Who says Hounslow Council is incapable of joined up thinking! :)

Francis Rowe ● 2221d

Hogarth roundabout isn’t an option for anyone living North of the High Street as you can’t cross it due to the TGT / Devonshire / Fishers lane closures... genuinely not sure how we get home after any journeys out of London!

Alice Sheridan ● 2221d

SOTG will be within the ULEZ extension from October 2021 so there will be a charge for a non-compliant vehicle.

Michael Robinson ● 2221d

Same as always, Hogarth Roundabout and Chiswick Lane. Entry to Devonshire Road from there has been closed for years.

Carl Wynne ● 2221d

I understood it that only pre-registered vehicles from the designated zones will be granted northbound access along Hartington. That is a bit of a conundrum for schools South of Chiswick Bridge trying to access the rowing clubs along Hartington  for after school rowing clubs whereby they will have to now travel as far as Burlington Lane in the stop start traffic as it approaches the roundabout, along burlington and down grove park road onto hartington to travel southwards!

Simeon Gill ● 2221d

hahahha, Michael, what a comedian. Is that the best you can do, I thought cars and through traffic were the devil. How about the 1000 vehicles at the business park, imagine the fun on a wet Wednesday evening as they add to the jams at Chiswick roundabout, Kew bridge or the High Road. What joy. Its very hard to understand why you are not objecting to this? Now you are here, please can you answer the questions I posed about your letter to the government. Were you making stuff up, which would be naughty and rather undermine all the other stuff you spout. Or do you have clear evidence to support your claim that the High Road is booming.

Paul Green ● 2221d

Yes then you are H&F's problem! Hounslow mission accomplished. Or you could do Burlington Lane, Staveley Road, PArk Road, Chesterfield road SCR  or my preference would be to use the high level overpass at CR, chiswick Lane to join everyones favourite car park CHR all the way down to Acton Lane - just factor another couple of hours to your journey. I would buy a Volkswagon diesel to make it worth your effort

Simeon Gill ● 2221d

Not holding my breath on getting an answer there. As I mentioned elsewhere, Staveley Road now looks like a Lego version of East Berlin. What with all the barriers and barricades, it’s like a Toy Town Trump has seized control of Hounslow House.

Russell Pearson ● 2220d

It has now been confirmed that no consultation with either LAS or the West Middx. hospital was done. The cycleway is now to be 'tweaked' with the view to allow easier access for the ambulance service whilst maintaining cycle safety. There is also going to be a road safey audit. Stable doors and horses?I'm not sure what passes for brains these days, but it seems to me that all relative consultations should have taken place before Hounslow went off on one, sticking bollards everywhere. Clearly if you are on a bike you are an exalted being around here - and sod the rest of us. It has also been declared that this is going to happen starting at Brentford Bridge right up to College Rd. Isleworth. I have reached the conclusion that the elected councillors in this borough are totally useless, and are only interested in dictating to the rest of us how we should live our lives, and if one more of them or their bloody officers mentions sodding Covid as a justification/excuse for imposing all this rubbiish on us I will scream.

Vanessa Smith ● 2220d

So if coming from Richmond over the Chiswick Bridge I want to drive into Chiswick I will now have to continue on the A316 to Hogarth's Roundabout take first left (doubling back on myself) onto the A4 to the notorious A4/SCR junction turn right onto SCR (so more traffic on a road that could not cope). And then if your journey requires you to go over the High Road just about only option is the car park that used to be called South Parade.It reminds me of the old Irishman joke of when a motorist stopped to ask Paddy for directions he replied I wouldn't start from here if I were you

Justin Stephenson ● 2220d

North Circ.

Ken Munn ● 2220d

?

Ken Munn ● 2220d

one person's welcome is another person's unwelcome(ancient chiswick proverb)

Simon Pedley ● 2220d

I was there and it was a sight for sore eyes. Beautiful. And so much better when I stopped again in the evening. Great to see that the Council listened to the residents’ concerns and provided a light-controlled crossing for pedestrians too! Live consultation in action.

Paul Campbell ● 2220d

When are the next local elections?

Micki Hawkes ● 2220d

Paul is write. Showing you are listening and adapting is very important in a trial.So much focus on a pedestrian island and now they have a signalised crossing. What an upgrade!!Hearnyboy might have to bust out another mask for a street party.

Tony Smart ● 2220d

Richard Cathcart - the Council have previously sent workers to do the job during the day time, both times, the 2nd under police protection, they were prevented by vigilant local residents who did not want this road scheme implemented.  The Council refuses to take on board  local residents' opinions so the only way was to sneak in under cover of darkness.

Jennifer Selig ● 2220d

"the real waste of money"Gee, Paul, the real waste of opportunity was the council not taking into account the need for parking at Brentford stadium. Had they considered it, they would have gotten into the business themselves and created a revenue stream. Instead, they farmed it out at a loss to the council.Good bit of planning and management that.

David Lesniak ● 2220d

'When are the next local elections?'May 2022 - can't come quickly enough for Isleworth.

Vanessa Smith ● 2220d

Helen B - I've not got the time or energy to dig out chapter and verse but our local Chiswick Councillors have been pretty active in opposing these mad road closing schemes.  The Riverside Councillor Sam Hearn heads up the team - a couple of weeks back, they published a letter written directly to Grant Shapps.  Hounslow Council have never consulted directly with individual local residents and these street closures, diversions, have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CURTAILING THE COVID VIRUS!!!  Preventing swift access for ambulances, fire engines doctors and carers has exactly the opposite effect!

Jennifer Selig ● 2220d

"Live consultation in action."Ha ha ha. Some call it consultation. Others see it as masturbation.

Steve Taylor ● 2220d

Good to know Jennifer but why couldn't he have made it clear? This is just a sham and I wonder how any council can do this at these times-  no proper consultations no information to residents -  therefore no democracy ... Such a waste of money - especially during these economic times- so many really important things money could have been sensibly spent.I have heard nothing from this council - just seen roads closed during the nights!!! Are they afraid they will be linched if they closed Stavely during days-

Helen Bamberger ● 2220d

"just seen roads closed during the nights!!!"The Stasi closed roads, built walls and blocked underground rail tunnels at night too!!!

Steve Taylor ● 2220d

Don't think the next local elections are going to make any difference, Micki. As far as the denizens of Fortress Hounslow are concerned, Chiswick is simply a far-flung outpost whose location most of them only have a hazy idea of. It votes a different way from their built-in majority, and is of little use to them apart from supplying disproportionate amounts of cash.

Colin Jordan ● 2220d

Local elections maybe not. But having though Khan was a shoe in, now definitely  not.  If these schemes continue across London with TfL providing the cash, as well as running a poor public transport service Khan will be gone.

David Riley ● 2219d

Colin's dead right with his comments.

Jennifer Selig ● 2219d

Walking past this evening I saw 3 cars mounting the pavement to by pass the bollards.  With the local residents clapping them as they did. As with Harvard Hill it is an accident waiting to happen.

M Dowling ● 2219d

Workman came yesterday and relocated the no right turn into Lawford Rd signs located on Park Rd (cunningly hidden yesterday behind trees). Well done LBH.It has not made a blind bit of difference. Drivers travelling west along Staveley Rd are ignoring the signs and are driving down Lawford Rd in convoy. No traffic monitoring cables on this street. I wonder why not? A neighbour put some plastic bollards in the roadway at the Park Road junction with Lawford Rd and the drivers just drive round them. This is what Cllr Gabriella Giles and I told have been telling officers for months.We have been promised a mobile camera in Lawford Rd that will be a "visible" deterrent and will ticket some unfortunate drivers who do not see the signs. But we all know what will happen as soon as that camera is removed don't weIn addition, it is now very clear that drivers thwarted in driving east along Staveley Road are diverting south along Sutton Court Rd to Lawford Rd and there is nothing in the measures designed and implemented to stop this. As with the rest of the traffic measures for Chiswick Riverside there is nothing to deter rat-runners travelling north-south i.e. the evening rush hour rat runners can still get through - via a narrow residential street. Fantastic - pure genius. The character of Lawford and Park Rd (certainly the southern part where I live) has now radically changed. No longer quiet residential streets but clogged up rat runs. This is unlikely to change over coming weeks because the measures implemented are too weak and feeble to stop the rat runners.If you do not believe me come and have a look for yourself. The answer is very simple. Take away the barrier and assorted street furniture and install an ANPR camera at the Burlington Lane / Staveley Rd junction that will allow access only to residents living in the local GP CPZ. LBH are doing exactly this on Hartington Rd, Thames Rd and the school streets at Grove Park Terrace, St Thomas's Rd and by Chiswick School (the short bit of Staveley Rd. So no great technical or mental leap is required.ANPR - simple and effective and easy for residents and rat-runners to understand. The ANPR can even operate on a flexible basis so that morning and evening rat runners are stopped but residents are not faced with massive 24/7 detours.The current barrier is ugly and intrusive and is not effective in stopping rat-running. What am I missing here? Why would LBH persist with such a duff scheme? The Russell Kerr Close fiasco should have been a lesson to us all. When LBH bends to the will of the Cycle Lobby and ignores residents wishes it makes big mistakes. There is a win /win option here. Why are Hounslow Council being so obsessed with a barrier? We the local Cllrs pointed out rat-runners would simply divert into Lawford Rd - so they have put in the useless no left turn signs. We told them that there would be an inadequate turning circle if a barrier was erected - so they decided to remove the traffic islands to make a turning circle possible. We told them the crossing and the traffic islands were essential for local pedestrians and provided a visual message to tell drivers to slow down - so they have come up with a crummy temporary traffic light solution.Have you perhaps got the message? Hounslow obtained the funding from TfL by drawing a few lines on a map and writing a short explanatory blurb. The reality has proved far more complex and expensive. ALL of this could have been avoided if they had consulted local residents and local councillors before they pressed the Start button.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2219d

Thankyou cllr Hearn - I did you an injustice- apologies- wrong info given to me.

Helen Bamberger ● 2219d

We’d need all the CPZ for Grove Park adding to the ANPR exemption. Problem with Hartington is only 2 small ones nearby can come in. H&F have managed the ANPR system a lot better - they’ve worked out how to automatically add people to the exemption list using their CPZ data, and DVLA registered address data.

Russell Pearson ● 2219d

Cllr Sam Hearn   Just an observation from your detailed post  Remove Cllr from your name . It may just come and bite you in the backside for future issues people may have.  Just a heads up

Julian Pavey ● 2219d

Now that the barrier is installed, it should be given some time to see what happens, together with the other measures being applied.Cllr. Hearn - I certainly hope you won't be ignoring the traffic signs and be tempted to turn right into Lawford and nip into your drive unnoticed.

Jonathan Simpson ● 2219d

What a suggestion Jonathan. Of course I make most of my short journeys on foot or by bike now-a-days. But I will have a quiet word with my wife. She tells me that we can turn left into Lawford Rd travelling north on Park Road. Yet another one of the the baffling number of anomalies within LBH traffic measures for south Chiswick. As Bismark said about the Schelswig/Holstein problem. "There have only ever three been three people who understand it. One is dead.One is mad and the other one is me."Julian - I changed my handle on this forum soon after I became a councillor because nasty little "baskets" began posting that I was hiding behind a civilian identity and that I should come clean. Is that a good enough explanation? Damned if I do and damned if I don't.Helen - apology gratefully accepted. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2219d

I’ve never gone all the way up to Hogath roundabout before when coming in from the M3/A316. And Chiswick lane doesn’t help as if I head back west along the High Road I can no longer go up TGT or any of the routes via Fishers Lane to get north of the High Road. So it’s now up to Goldhawk Road and back down Bath Road, which is unnecessarily long winded, or is the lower end of Staveley Road by Chiswick school still open?

Alice Sheridan ● 2218d

I don't understand why traffic still struggles to get through Staveley, Park and Lawford when they could just stay on Burlington all the way. I guess drivers do get set in their ways and maybe there aren't enough advance signs to warn them of what's changed.

Peter Evans ● 2218d

I wonder how hard the morons will clap when a car driving on the pavement runs a pedestrian over?

Carl Wynne ● 2218d

Light bulb moment Peter - it is still quicker to drive down Staveley and to drive illegally down Lawford than to drive all the way round on Burlington Lane. There is also of course the added "buzz" of thinking that you have beaten the system. In addition during the rush hour school pupils and commuters crossing Burlington Lane by the Station make it hard just to "zip along".

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2218d

I drove to Chiswick House, Park Road entrance, this morning and after walking the dogs got into car to drive to the Co op, went down Park Road then right into Staveley and onto my destination. But how on earth do Emergency Vehicles get quick access to Staveley and Park Roads either side of the barrier when minutes really can be critical ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2218d

Oh goodness Loraine- they obviously didn’t think about that !!

Helen Bamberger ● 2218d

Very worrying, how could LB Hounslow be so careless and remiss ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2218d

I can't believe their incompetence .. Total lack of thought and expense and they want us to vote for them next time - you can see how strongly I feel about this extremely stupid exercise.

Helen Bamberger ● 2218d

What utter rubbish Cllr Hearn talks. He claims it's still quicker to drive up Staveley road, left down Park Road, illegally right into Lawford Rd and then right in Sutton Court Rd..... than drive along Burlington Lane.He it talking this rubbish because he is only looking at how it effect him as he lives on the corner of Lawford Rd. He couldn't give 2 hoots about anyone else and ignores the reality that Burlington Lane will take the entirety of the displaced traffic not just from Staveley but also from Hartswood.In this respect he is aligned with Michael Robinson who also refuses to see the impact on Burlington Lane because he has no solution for it.

Richard Potts ● 2218d

" Total lack of thought and expense and they want us to vote for them next time -"They couldn't care less if you vote for them. They get enough votes in west Hounslow to ensure a landslide majority. They hold you in contempt.

Steve Taylor ● 2218d

Yes- sad isn’t it .£

Helen Bamberger ● 2218d

Simple Solution.I am sure something similar, if not identical has been proposed, but I can't be bothered to trawl through the countless threads/postings on this subject.There should be four routes in and out of Grove Park.Thames Road (from A205)Sutton Court Road (from A4)Staveley Road (from A316)Hartington Road (from A316)All other routes are closed to vehicles.ANPR on each of the 4 entrance/exits.Number plates are recorded as the vehicle drives into Grove Park 'neighbourhood area'. If the vehicle drives out of Grove Park using any other entrance/exit within twenty minutes they are charged.If they drive out of the same entrance/exit that they entered in, they are not charged (this will allow for delivery vehicles).This will not affect Grove Pk residents driving within the area or driving out of the area. No need for a Grove Pk residents data base.It will only affect drivers using Grove Park as a cut through.The cost of the camera installation will be recouped with the charges made as commuters 'learn the ropes'.

Jonathan Simpson ● 2218d

You missed Burlington Lane off the list. But as an idea it has merit. These are the sort of creative options that we need to look, at and that a full consultation could have explored.

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

What percentage usually reply to a consultation?

Philippa Bond ● 2217d

Burlington Lane is very near to Staveley Road entrance/exit so thought it was probably not necessary. If LBH could stretch to five cameras then yes, this could be considered as the fifth entrance/exit.

Jonathan Simpson ● 2217d

I think it’s worth exploring if the A316 end of Staveley could be closed in this model. Burlington and Hartington taking the local traffic etc. Stop any rat running past the main school entrance. Would mess up the car boot sale though!

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

JulianIMHO, it is useful to know when a contributor to this forum is a local councillor, and they should be encouraged to take part while being readily identified. Not everyone necessarily knows the names of their councillors and the presence of Sam Hearn and John Todd on this forum is often helpful. If either of the local MPs could be persuaded to join in, then I would expect their handle to identify them too, but I suspect the Labour Party does not encourage its MPs to interract with their constituents except under controlled circumstances, which is regrettable.

Richard Greenhough ● 2217d

Jonathan,I don’t think it is correct to call it ‘simple’ given as far as I am aware, no council in the U.K. has yet implemented multiple cameras with timed restrictions between them.I believe Green Dragon Lane in Brentford is the first.  It seems sensible to understand how to get it working with 2 cameras first.I agree the 4 roads you mentioned would be the ones with cameras and Harvard Hill, Eastbourne, Milnthorpe, Park and Burlington closed in both directions. Burlington could be closed before Staveley so access is still available from A316 east of the closure.A complication is that TfL agreement would be needed to close access from the A4 or A316 if the closure was at the junction (which it would be for the roads off the A4)

Michael Robinson ● 2217d

Hi MichaelAny update on the letter you sent to the government and the High Road boom, it would be strange of someone with such a focus on data to not actually have any. It would rather undermine your overall position.Also I am puzzled why you are not unhappy at thousands of cars flooding into GP and Chiswick when there is a match at the new stadium. The stretch of SoTG that is only for local residents seems to be also for sports fans. You seem keen to stop people driving to the shops but no complaints about all this non local traffic? Any improvement in pollution and congestion from a few locals changing their habits will be more than offset by stadium related traffic.

Paul Green ● 2217d

Strange silence on the  shopping boom data. Reminded of the adage, “In God we trust, all others must bring data”.  Apart it seems when the Lycra Lobby make very spurious claims.Michael also says no council has tried the timed in out option ANPR on entry points, but they plan to do exactly that with Thames Rd. It’s the same basic logic, is it not? Ditto the database exemption option, they plan this for Hartington Road (albeit one where unlike H&F, they have no grasp of APIs.) What’s the issue there from an IT perspective, why that would not work for all of Grove Park?

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

More IT data questions for Michael.What are the failings of the ANPR system at Sainsbury’s Richmond, that can clock when I go in and out, and will fine me if I stay longer than 4 hours? Are there any limitations for using this in a supermarket car park with more than 2 ways in and out? How do Sainsbury’s car park agents, manage the database so they can issue fines, is this really complicated?

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

Green Dragon Lane is the first I’ve heard of a council doing timed restrictions with 2 cameras. I’ve not heard of any with more than 2.

Michael Robinson ● 2217d

Paul, I see you have added ‘creepy stalker’ onto ‘blowhard with anger management issues’ as your contribution to this forum.

Michael Robinson ● 2217d

Please put aside the ad hominem attacks Michael. So what your saying is you’ve not seen this very specific use case deployed by a local authority yet. What’s the reasons why it, or an ANPR system synced up to CPZ/DVLA data, will not work?

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

The pair of cameras with timed restrictions had the advantage that they don’t need to maintain a database to check against. As I said, Green Dragon Lane is the first I’ve heard any council doing this sort of measure and that has 2 cameras. I’ve never heard of it being done with multiple cameras. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done but to me it makes sense to start with 2.With the money provided by the government, I doubt Hounslow will have the budget for an IT project integrating camera hardware, software and their existing systems. I may be doing their transport team a disservice, but experience doing traffic engineering isn’t the necessarily the same experience needed to spec an IT project.Pure speculation on my part, but the 2 different ways of doing ANPR (whitelist and timed restrictions) may be to get experience on the pros and cons for each method for a more informed decision by the end of the trial. Of course, a conclusion might be, its more hassle than its worth, better to stick in a planter.

Michael Robinson ● 2217d

See Michael's silly attacks as what they are: diversions. He's nothing more than a paid lobbyist using skewed data.That way he doesn't have to answer the question about the local economy. Nor provide the missing data which we all know doesn't exist.

David Lesniak ● 2217d

Paid lobbyist?

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

Of course it is a mistake to believe most things David Lesniak says Russell.  I'm a professional engineer working for a tech company with an office in the City, currently closed so WFH.David's interpersonal skills and ability to build rapport with decision makers have been a great benefit to supporters of cycleway 9.As to responding to his stalking, I'm following the advice in this article 'How to argue with a narcissist'.  The advice is - don't.https://www.vice.com/en/article/dyzknx/how-to-argue-with-a-narcissist

Michael Robinson ● 2217d

"Of course, a conclusion might be, its more hassle than its worth, better to stick in a planter."Michael - you haven't mentioned the other available conclusion at the end of the trial period. We are repeatedly assured that all options will be available including "it's more hassle than it's worth so let's just do away with it". Or is there something we're not being told?

Bruce Hammal ● 2217d

Spare a thought for all the people who live in Staveley Gardens and Alexander Gardens.Some of these proposals/ideas appear to cut off this area from the rest of Chiswick. Not able to use Hartington or Staveley Rd as suggested. This area is not in a cpz so won't be allowed to travel thro parts of our own town, we are not rat runners but locals.Yes I use the bus when I can. Also the E3 bus needs access to Staveley rd. Some will remember that it used to travel along Burlington Lane to the A316 not practical now.

Paul Jennings ● 2217d

Actually The West Mid Hospital photographs your car entering their car park , photographs it again at the exit, works out how long you've been parked, then tells you to pay before the barrier is lifted to enable you to drive away.  Just imagine a car park firm can do that but not the local council who via all their Lampton companies feel themselves proficient to run all manner of specialized businesses.

Jennifer Selig ● 2217d

Fair points Paul J, this is why a full consultation is so important in order that everyone’s needs and views are addressed and heard.Hopefully Hounslow will see sense, and it won’t take an emergency with an ambulance or fire engine stuck in traffic / unable to navigate round round the blockades, to make that happen.https://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/news/redbridge-quiet-streets-under-fire-following-collapse-1-6869182

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

Bruce, one conclusion at the end of the experimental traffic order could be to remove all the measures and restore the road to its previous configuration.  It is a statutory requirement of the process that measures are temporary and can be removed.A decision must be made within 18 months of the original traffic order.  Measures can be changed within this period but the 18 month period still applies.A decision could be made to make measures permanent and replace barriers by building out the pavement.It could be that the ANPR measures simply aren't effective at reducing traffic, or are too complex operationally.  Or maybe they work well and their use is expanded - but that would be done using new traffic orders as part of a separate process.This is the advantage of the experimental traffic order process as consultation before implementation doesn't allow changes to the agreed implementation.As to what may happen.... I can't predict the future.

Michael Robinson ● 2217d

Good to communicate with you RP

Paul Jennings ● 2217d

You'll note, Russell, Michael opted again for diversion instead of answering the question.Michael has been given awards for his work on the Hounslow Cycling. HC is a division of London Cycling Campaign which gets public money. As Michael has pointed out, he is a professional engineer, not a trained psychotherapist. But he and other cycling evangelists like to paint me as a narcissist. Oddly, the debate always - always - turns things back to the cyclist and no one else. I'm no therapist either, but the word "projection" comes to mind.But let me take a moment to thank Michael for yet another of his ad hominem manoeuvres. No stalking here, Michael. I'm just following a thread.

David Lesniak ● 2216d

As a regular user of WM carpark I must correct you Jennifer.The system photographs the number plate on entry. AFTER your medical appt., on your way out your enter your car details and pay( in the entrance foyer). Then you have 15/20 minutes to return to your car and leave the car park.What miffs me is that blue badge holders are expected to pay. Also there are times when the car park is full and then you have to drive around it for up to 20 minutes trying to find a space. If none comes available you are expected to leave before the 20 minutes are up, drive around the block and start again!

Jeffrey Cope ● 2216d

Mr Potts - why the unpleasant personal attack on me? Do you really think that by writing "What utter rubbish Cllr Hearn talks" that you make your own argument any stronger? You claim that I "couldn't give 2 hoots about anyone else". Clearly you have never spoken to me nor have you seen any of the public statements and open letters that I have published. I have driven these two routes and it is quicker to drive up Staveley road, left down Park Road, illegally right into Lawford Rd (at the time legally) and then right into Sutton Court Rd..... than drive along Burlington Lane. Clearly you have never encountered the pedestrians crossing Burlington Lane by Chiswick Station during the rush hour (school pupils and commuters).This was before the new scheme diverted traffic from Staveley Road on to Burlington Lane. The difference in journey time must now be even greater given the increase in traffic on Burlington Lane.Weirdly Mr Potts you acknowledge this in your posting when you say "the reality is that Burlington Lane will take the entirety of the displaced traffic not just from Staveley but also from Hartswood". The increased traffic will make Burlinton Lane a slower not a faster route.By referring to "Hartwood" you have outed your self as someone who who does not live in the area and is simply passing on garbled information. I assume that you meant to say Hartington Rd? Anyone living in the area and knowing its links to the Dukes'of Devonshire would not have made such a schoolboy error. Very happy to discuss the matter with you Mr Potts when you have a better grasp on the facts.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2216d

Jeffrey C  are you absolutely sure that you still have to bother doing anything in the entrance foyer?  I am pretty sure the last time I was there, before Covid hit, my car was photographed on entry AND again at the exit barrier where I paid by touch card.  I'm supposed to be seeing my consultant there in November, may be changed to a phone call treatment of course, but if it proceeds no doubt I shall find out for myself.  I too have a Blue Badge and pay the full whack - OK for me as I don't have to visit too often but an expense for those disabled people needing frequent visits.

Jennifer Selig ● 2216d

I'm not sure that schools study the 'Landed Gentry of Britain' any more.

Peter Evans ● 2216d

Peter - if I make so bold not a very helpful response. Local history is studied in state schools and it is important that children see the direct relevance of the study of history to the location in which they live. History must never be just something that is only found between the covers of a book. This was powerfully demonstrated in Michael Wood's TV series and book "The Story of England" based in the Leicestershire village of Kibworth.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2216d

I understand all that Michael, my problem is that I am becoming increasingly convinced that returning to the status quo is becoming an option only in theory. Ultimately no matter what the predominant local sentiment and no matter how badly the schemes may function in practice the council will do what the  council wants to do — in fact it's worse than that, the final decision will ultimately come down to one man. I also wonder where the money would come from to reinstate things. I assume the funds from central government are all being spent up front, so a council with empty coffers is highly unlikely to come to a decision which it can't afford to implement. These "temporary", reversible measures are also being quoted as necessary elements  of larger scale plans. The TGT amd Fishers Lane closures are referenced as being integral to the functioning of CW9 — or is that also supposed to be reversible?

Bruce Hammal ● 2216d

Just for information.Is the Junction of the A316 and Burling Lane going to be left open?As as Paul Jennings posted about some roads will be effectively cut off from the rest of Chiswick.  We haven't got a CPZ so Hartington Road is unavailable, Staveley Road School Street will cut us off for two hours a day. So if Burlington Lane is closed, it means being stuck in traffic to get to the Hogarth Roundabout left along the A4 to Sutton Court Lights left down SCR to grove park bridge, over the bridge to Busbys Chemist. Or is LBH going arrange for the roads cut off, to be registered to use the school street.

Bernard Allen ● 2216d

W£ll they bloody well should!  History is what made the entire human race, made our country - the good and the bad going back to the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans, the explorers, the scientists.  From history we should learn from past mistakes and endeavor not to repeat them.  That would be a start.

Jennifer Selig ● 2216d

My comment was to Peter Evans.

Jennifer Selig ● 2216d

Cllr HearnYou are incorrect and again betray how you are driven by how this scheme effects you personally. 1. It is not quicker for vehicles to drive west along Staveley, wait at the temporary traffic lights, turn left down Park Rd, which (thanks to parking both sides)is difficult to navigate without stopping or slowing, then turn right (illegally) into Lawford before turning right again onto Sutton Court Rd.It is quicker to drive along the wide Burlington Lane (with little parked traffic nowadays thanks to CPZ) and up to SCR.Google Maps also sets this as the quickest route. We are led to believe most rat-running traffic uses route planners and this is up to 1 min quicker according to them.Since they have moved the “no access to Sutton Court” sign at the beginning of Staveley I think the traffic has dropped off now anyway.2. I did not say that Burlington Lane would become congested or slower. It will (and is already beginning to) experience a large increase in traffic. It will become more dangerous – especially by the Station area in the mornings with kids from the train to co-op etc. If the data of 8,000 cars cutting through GP each day is correct, this will all end up as extra traffic on BL. The impact on SCR will be from vehicles not being able to use Park Road and Harvard Hill to get onto the A4. But SCR will become more congested.3. You correctly point out my “schoolboy” error in calling Hartington Rd incorrectly. I blame my senility - I tend to get names muddled up. I am well aware of the history of the neighbourhood. But you are incorrect to triumphantly claim to have “outed me” as not living here. This seems to be the tactic on this forum when one doesn’t like what someone else is saying.Given that these trial measures will likely become permanent (by the time the cycle lobby has sabotaged the consultation) can you perhaps use your intellect & energies to find a plan to stop all through traffic from the A316? Then there would be no need to block Staveley.For instance, why can’t they use the same system as they’re using for Hartington for the Staveley and Burlington turns from the A316.

Richard Potts ● 2215d

The current plan is to leave Burlington Lane open. This will allow access in and out of the area 24/7. The powers that be have identified Burlington Lane as a key access route and many of the other traffic measures being implemented in so-called South Chiswick are designed to push traffic on to this road. No one has asked residents of Burlington Lane what they think of the idea. We (ward Cllrs) asked officers to restrict the street parking on the eastern end of Burlington Lane so that it could cope with the increased volume of traffic. This section of the road (by the school) is currently fully parked on both sides of the road. We foresee problems when access to Hartington Rd and the eastern end of Staveley Rd (by the school) are restricted. Sorting out the parking on Burlington Lane was deemed to be "in the too difficult box". Where it sits with sorting out the A4 / Sutton Court Rd Junction, the Grove Park Bridge, Grove Park Gardens and Grove Park Rd junction (along with the Piazza) and the A316 / Hartington Road junction and Hartington Rd cycle route upgrade.The measures being imposed on "South Chiswick" are complex and interconnected i.e. relying on each other for success. I greatly regret that many residents still do not understand the full implications and how it will change the lives of everyone in the area. The impact will be inequitable and essentially random - some will see benefits (quieter roads) whilst others will see more traffic and have to suffer nonsensical detours.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2215d

Bingo Richard ! We have both reached exactly the same conclusion. The 24/7 barrier is old-school thinking. It would be possible to deploy one or possibly two ANPR cameras on Staveley Road instead of a barrier. It would be good to consult residents on whether they would prefer the Hartington Road or the SOG version.  Senior LBH traffic officers have said that they will look at an ANPR solution once the temporary barrier has "bedded in" and driver behaviour has been modified i.e. no rat-runners on Staveley Rd.West-East rat running will continue along Lawford Rd since this remains legal. It really makes no sense that this traffic is now diverted on to narrow streets like Lawford and Park rather than remaining on the far wider Staveley Road.As the old saying goes "great minds think alike and fools seldom differ."

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2215d

I posted a few days back a snippet from a House of Commons debate in 1973(!!) which pointed out that the increased traffic using the A316 would inevitably lead to rat-running and that measures such as local road closures would need to be considered.You would have thought that 47 years would be enough time to develop a coherent, sensible plan that takes into account local needs.  Sadly clearly that was wrong!!I am guessing that the rather obvious solution of prohibiting turning off the A316 onto Staveley Road was too "difficult" for LBH to consider - maybe because they needed TfL approval?

Justin Stephenson ● 2215d

Cllr Hearn is being typically disingenuous as he knows full well that the project funding is only for temporary measures and doesn't cover permanent changes such as A4/Sutton Court Rd and the other items he listed.Of course, he could have asked for more funding in his letter to Grant Shapps but this was just more disingenuous whinging.Have you got a reply yet Sam?

Michael Robinson ● 2215d

Sam Hearn does not answer to Michael Robinson but to the electors of Riverside, who elected him and keep electing him. Michael Robinson was elected by nobody and does not even represent the interests of cyclists. LBH has compounded a PR disaster by choosing him - wittingly or unwittingly - as the conduit by which its malign plans became known to us.

Brendan McCarthy ● 2215d

"West-East rat running will continue along Lawford Rd since this remains legal. "From the pre-Covid traffic survey, there was a grand total of 184 vehicles going west-east along Lawford in the 12 hours between 7am to 7pm.Hardly a big deal, is it?

Michael Robinson ● 2215d

Thanks for confirming Brendan that as I am resident of Riverside ward, Cllr Hearn does in fact answer to me as one of his electorate.

Michael Robinson ● 2215d

I stand corrected.

Brendan McCarthy ● 2215d

"West-East rat running will continue along Lawford Rd since this remains legal. "From the pre-Covid traffic survey, there was a grand total of 184 vehicles going west-east along Lawford in the 12 hours between 7am to 7pm.Pre-Covid stats are hardly quotable, since the vehicles are now using Staveley Road /Park Road / Lawford Road. I think there is a lot more using Lawford Road now.

Bernard Allen ● 2215d

Cllr Hearn was complaining about west to east ratrunning which was minimal before COVID and not affected by the current measures.It’s difficult to keep up with what the cllrs are complaining about these days.Cllr Todd is complaining about too much ANPR and Cllr Hearn is complaining about not enough.

Michael Robinson ● 2215d

I'm going through for school run or commuting. It is working already. Staveley has become the street it was intended to be originally and it is rather lovely.

Paul Campbell ● 2215d

It'll be even lovelier at cherry blossom time.

Ken Munn ● 2215d

Oh I don’t know, It’s always been a busy road. Remember it had two schools in it until the new estate was built.Lawford road was also busy as there was a BMC main car dealer and petrol station at the Sutton Court Road end of it.

Bernard Allen ● 2215d