Forum Topic

Is Legal Challenge Coming To Chiswick?

Across London "experimental" traffic orders are being used.  They have to be reversible.However, a significant legal question arises?  And that is when is an experimental scheme not experimental?One can see that a few bollards and a few white lines probably is experimental and can easily be removed at little costs.  But:1.  If significant costs £10k, £20k requiring an equal amount reinstate is incurred,2. Certain actions such as the removal of pedestrian Islands or construction of new traffic lights3. Coupled with poor monitoring or 4. Reliant on other associated experimental traffic ordersone can clearly see that the outcome of experimental schemes becoming permanent is clearly prejudiced.  This could result in a class action being brought following this line of argument in a Pre Action Protocol letter in Islington.I maybe a cyclist, a fan of some cycleways, but the law must be cherished and upheld.  This issue needs to be clearly tested.

David Riley ● 2221d17 Comments

There is a Facebook site called OneChiswick - https://www.facebook.com/groups/onechiswick/?multi_permalinks=2970595539894169¬if_id=1601415207038003¬if_t=group_activity&ref=notiffor those against the new measures, and they have been discussing the proposed class action on that.

Claire Moran ● 2221d

If a Pre Action protocol has been initiated in Islington, then its surely advisable to see how that one plays out first, as any judgement either way it may well set a precedent in judgements on all similar schemes.For while the sentiment may be applauded, the fact remains the LBH or LBE will hire the best possible legal advice and representation, as they have in the past; whereas it will be Council Tax payerswho will eventually have to pick up their bill.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 2221d

David and Goliath.  Sometimes David wins. And if it's necessary, I for one will help fund anyone taking on Big Brother with Kafka fringes.

Claire Moran ● 2221d

But win or lose, Council Tax payers will still end up paying the Council's costs. That's the point.And even if the campaigners are successful and are awarded their costs against the Council, its Council Tax payers who are going to end up paying for those too.  Basically the Council will spend as much money as they see fit to defend their decisions, and we end up with the bill. Its totally iniquitous but that's the way it is.And as Islington residents have apparently already picked up that particular baton, I see no reason to be in any hurry to emulate them. michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 2221d

Will be interesting to see. £20,000 per ANPR camera I’m told. Some say they’re a doddle to move about. I’m not convinced they’re that mobile - it’s also taking an age to put one in - see the big hole dug out at Hartington by the Quay. They’re still waiting on the contractors to fit it. Bill for Grove Park alone is a minimum of £100,000 based on the 5 cameras planned there. Admin costs on top as they’re using a separate database for Hartington on top of the CPZ one. (unlike H&F who have discovered APIs).Is this a temporary measure?

Russell Pearson ● 2221d

My taxes are spent on a huge amount of things I disagree with including supporting grouse shooting and badger killing.  More than happy to stand up against more of it being p***d down the drain on these extremely harmful and utterly stupid measures.

Claire Moran ● 2221d

I thought you were leaving?

Tony Smart ● 2221d

Oh, and I also object to my taxes going to support the EU bullfighting industry, as it does, and export of live animals, including baby calves, sheep, pigs and other animals left without food and water for 24 plus hours, transported brutally overseas, suffering broken legs and other injuries, brutally beaten to be slaughtered horrifically in overseas abattoirs. It's not nature red in tooth and claw, it's us who are appallingly barbaric, and if we are silent, we are complicit.  And our councils are adding to frustration of people who simply want to get around and to pollution.  Tney are totally bereft of intellect and insight.  That is why I would be happy to object.

Claire Moran ● 2221d

Tony, you are a perfect candidate for living and cycling in the bucolic countryside.  It's you and your ilk that should leave, cycling along country roads, no nasty traffic, why not?  What on earth are you doing in a City?  Leave the rest of us to enjoy City life. You clearly aren't happy here, so why not leave?  Cities = buildings, roads, cars.  Countryside = country roads, horses, farm animals.  You'd clearly be much better off in the latter, and we'd all be much relieved if you just left and went into your natural idyllic habitat.  If you refuse to do that, you'll just have to put up with the fact that the City ain't the country, and never will be, much as you would like it to be, unless you want to destroy it completely, as it's clear you and your ilk would like to do, and are starting to succeed.  Why destroy a City when you could do your thing quite happily in the country?  The City is going to fight destructive people like you who are out of place here, trying to make it conform to something it is not. Whether I can be bothered to stay and fight I don't know, but I do know the City will win, eventually.

Claire Moran ● 2221d

I thought you were leaving?

Tony Smart ● 2221d

Residents in Ealing seem to be taking a different approach to the ones in Islington.They seem to be arguing that the waiver on Experimental Traffic Orders being advertised in a local newspaper was only given for emergency measures and any scheme being introduced at this stage clearly wouldn't qualify.If this proves to be true it creates a dilemma for Hounslow as there isn't a local newspaper for them to put the notices in - a printed one at least. All the Experimental Traffic Orders they issued would be invalid and there wouldn't be a viable mechanism for them to issue new ones. The probability is that the council would contest any legal challenge on this basis and continue to operate as they do currently in the hope that any case never got to the stage where a judge might make a ruling.

Paul Corcoran ● 2221d

Hounslow Council publish and deliver their own news letter.

Mairi Franses ● 2221d

Hounslow produce their own newsletter?  I've never received a copy

Jane Martin ● 2221d

From the Hounslow website, "Hounslow Matters is the council's magazine for all local residents and businesses. The magazine is full of useful community news, about the services that matter to you."It is put through our letter box here in East Chiswick regularly and has been for years. It seems to be published 4 times a year. It contains a lot of self aggrandisement.

Mairi Franses ● 2221d

The magazine is there on the Council website for you to read online.  There are complaints whatever Councils do or don't do.  There are complaints about not getting information or not getting it delivered in someone's preferred media of the moment. There are complaints when the information is actually delivered to the door with some residents showing great pride in announcing they put it straight in the recycling.  You would hardly expect Councils to denigrate the work that they do in particular achievements. It gives them the chance to show how many responsibilities the Councils have.  Little seems to be learnt at school about that. Sadly there are residents who don't even know which borough they are living in - or which boroughs surround them.

Philippa Bond ● 2221d

According to this it’s £20k to remove the islands on Staveley Road and it would cost another £20k to put em back. If there is a legal case here to argue that they’re not temporary due to the costs, then this might be evidence of one of them.https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/workmen-install-staveley-rd-barrier-early-morning/

Russell Pearson ● 2221d

It is also becoming apparent that the Council is going to go through a significant costs reduction exercise.  So having the funds available to reverse schemes may not be readily available.  SO what does it then do?It must be in breach either way, as it cannot reverse, and in cannot make a temporary design permanent?There is an interesting to point of law for sure.

David Riley ● 2220d