Forum Topic

Pollution from exhaust fumes in gridlocked traffic

I see from the front page article that several Chiswick residents who are  "in the front line of the fight against Covid 19"  have written to Grant Shapps supporting the traffic measures put in place by Hounslow Council. I would like to hear these residents' views on the danger to our respiratory health from having to breathe in the exhaust fumes from the resulting gridlocked traffic. The borough of Wandsworth, (interestingly enough, home to Sadiq Khan), has suspended its LTN measures. I think Hounslow should do likewise.

Mairi Franses ● 2222d79 Comments

Agreed wholeheartedly- went to the high road this morning early- gridlocked - cars spewing out their putrid fumes- never seen so many cars this early due to obviously road closures and new tightening of the roads- how on earth are the council paying for this- I am horrified

Helen Bamberger ● 2222d

'never seen so many cars' I think you'll find its less cars than normal, just that the new road layouts are causing the jams and making those car journeys much slower. So fewer cars, but more pollution...   I can't see that is a win for anyone is it? 

Rob Reynolds ● 2222d

I too noticed a huge increase in fumes from cars, but this is solely down to road closures and works for C9. As far far as the letter it's basically the pro cycling lobbyists, there partners and non Chiswick  residents also chipping in for good measure.What we need is a proper and open consultation / referendum but only for Chiswick residents and businesses.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2222d

The people who have signed this letter are not simply a bunch of pro-cycling lobbyists but include a number whose views we should respect and take note of.That said I do find their line of argument a bit odd - perhaps a function of it being a letter drawn up by committee.Essentially they seem to be saying that councillors in Chiswick should be obliged to support the measures being implemented by Hounslow Council because they were based on proposals made by a Conservative Central government. This is a surprising angle to take - surely they should support the policies because they are right, not because of party affiliation. None of the signatories would have suggested that Tory councillors in Chiswick were obliged to support Brexit.There is almost a sense of wanting to shift the blame from Hounslow Council to the government for policies which are clearly unpopular. Once again this doesn't resonate of total commitment to the cause.The letter is also probably addressed to the wrong person. Grant Shapps, who I find hard to believe is not an assistant manager at an estate agents branch in Woking or Staines apparently has had little or no say in these policies. They were dictated to him by Andrew Gilligan whose authority came through his relationship with the Prime Minister.

Paul Corcoran ● 2222d

Drivers have the option of turning their engines off if they are stationary.

Ken Munn ● 2222d

That is not really an option in slow moving traffic. Modern vehicles have an auto cut off. If you fancy going along a queue and giving them your insights I am sure people would be delighted.

Paul Green ● 2222d

"The letter is also probably addressed to the wrong person. Grant Shapps, who I find hard to believe is not an assistant manager at an estate agents branch in Woking or Staines"I was that man back in the 70's, actually I never made assistance manager but did manage to buy my first house for £10,250 and sell it four years later for 30% more than I paid.Happy days!Anyway I digress , why have the good and great introduced electric powered bikes and scooters which require minimum to no effort to use? How is that going to improve people's fitness?

Adrian Irving ● 2222d

That was in Staines BTW now Staines upon Thames.

Adrian Irving ● 2222d

Yes, originally one of Gilligan’s harebrained ideas no doubt.https://www.onlondon.co.uk/andrew-gilligan-boriss-penny-farthing-cummings-pedals-back-to-city-hall/Buck stops with Shapps.

Russell Pearson ● 2222d

Protesters about what's happening in East London re road closures reported on TV tonight (can't remember if Sky or BBC).

Claire Moran ● 2222d

Drivers also have the option of not actually driving

Carl Wynne ● 2222d

Not if they need to do so for work or to shop and are not physically able to walk long distances or cycle. Or if they are tradespeople, delivery drivers, taxis etc.

Paul Green ● 2222d

Well said Paul. Those “me-me” types in favour of road closures and barricades still expect their Ocado deliveries, Deliveroo, and taxis to Heathrow, and more.

Russell Pearson ● 2222d

So many of them do have this option. And they are always the ones whining about the people who don’t. For whom they have never previously given a single toss

Paul Campbell ● 2222d

Paul C, I am not sure who you are actually insulting at this point, other than everyone who doesn't share your obsessions,Now that you have crawled back out into the open. Can you shed some light on this letter referred to on the front page:* what data do you have to substantiate the fact that there is 'a local boom' on the High Road. Do you have stats on spending or interviews from a representative number of businesses? Did you also understand how many shoppers had come specifically because a road was now closed that had not come before when that road was open?* IS there separate data and surveys for TGT and DR? * With most now WFH, how do spending patterns compare with areas that have seen no local road closures?* How does the closure of Bread Ahead support the idea of a local boom* can you explain the linkage of the Chiswick flower market to any road closures or restrictions in Chiswick? Again, how many attendees only came because TGT was closed? * Which hard to let sites have now been occupied, and who spoke to the new occupants to understand what if any role a local road closure might have had in their decision. Can you provide clear quotes to support this?If you cannot answer any of the above, then no doubt Tom or Michael must know. After all they love talking about data and stats and have been clear to rubbish mere hearsay about businesses that are suffering. Of course, it may be that you are simply making it up.... and playing us all for fools.

Paul Green ● 2222d

Crawled back into the open! I’ve been posting on here today. Get back under your rock.

Paul Campbell ● 2222d

I wondered who was the target of the ramble too and would also like to hear some answers to Paul Green’s questions.Thought the new letter to Shapps was of note. What I missed in it, was any working class support - people who have to either drive to work, or for a living.

Russell Pearson ● 2222d

I'm sure this group of bien pensants Chiswick locals have the best of intentions but the notion that there is a 'local boom' on Chiswick High Road will infuriate struggling shopkeepers.It's been said before, but the problem they have is that they don't have any sort of representative body to counter this sort of nonsense. When individual businesses say they face ruin, this is being dismissed as anecdotal but that would be harder if the shops had some sort of common voice.

Mark Evans ● 2222d

"but include a number whose views we should respect and take note of"Defined by what, exactly?Their views are more important than yours? Mine? Ours?Me, I'm just a taxpayer. A business owner. I could puff myself up and call myself a Managing Director. Would that get me on the list?Your position, Paul, is exclusionary. That does not a community make. Private, elite near-gated communities yes. An urban neighborhood? No.

David Lesniak ● 2222d

This is for Paul Green:Let me answer for Paul Campbell: no.Please note: nobody's the fool. Signed, The Son of a Doctor so surely that title allows me to run roughshod over the democratic process.

David Lesniak ● 2222d

Adrian, I really hope you don't think my comparison was aimed at you. I had no idea. For the record, you would make a far better Minister of Transport than Shapps.David, it is true I am more inclined to listen to the views of people qualified to have an opinion on a subject than those that don't. Doctors and Professors deserve extra respect for their achievements and anything they say should be taken seriously. If they are collectively saying that a council policy is supportive of public health then there is a good chance that this is the case.However, the letter doesn't really focus on areas in which most of the people on this list have any especial knowledge and when they talk about retail trade they are clearly out of their depth. That is a matter I would give more credence to your view than theirs whether or not you described yourself as a Managing Director.

Paul Corcoran ● 2222d

"Hounslow should do likewise."Hounslow Cllrs and officers are to thick to understand it.

Steve Taylor ● 2222d

I agree, if these traffic restriction are causing an increase in pollution and emissions,  they would be completely counterproductive and should be reversed. We have a monitor on the High Road that can show if pollution has worsened significantly. There is an annual cycle with pollution generally higher in the winter, but if we compare the various pollutants measured this month to the levels seen at the same time last year, none are higher, and three of the five are significantly lower.      

Tom Pike ● 2222d

Do you have pollution data on the wider area Tom? Saw a map once charting the A4/M4 and its dire impact on Chiswick and Brentford. The river seemed to make little impact on it, it just hung like an invisible smog over us.

Russell Pearson ● 2222d

The problem with the Turnham Green closure is not the extra traffic it causes on Chiswick High Road but on South Parade, Bath Road, Prebend Gardnes and Acton Lane. Do you have any data on air quality for these roads?

Anita Blake ● 2222d

Tom, nice to see you surface. I had posted a series of questions regarding the letter you signed. I can repost if needed, but it would be great to get access to all the data, surveys and questionnaires that underpinned the claims made. I am sure you must have that....To the specific pollution point, there are a few things. Firstly, the number of buses using the High Road has fallen and we are seeing more electric and hybrid vehicles. So comparisons to historic data become tricky. Secondly, the road closures and diversions of traffic off the High Road is causing increasing congestion around the west end of the High Road and roads to the north,including Acton Lane/ South Parade/ Sutton Lane etc. We also see more congestion at the Goldhawk road junction. There is no pollution monitor on these routes, so how do we account for that (or do we just pretend it is not happening). It is clear that the schemes and closures are now designed to reduce traffic flow along the High Road, but displace it elsewhere. So it would be strange and indeed worrying if pollution did not fall, but again the year on year comparisons are very tricky.A simple review of the chart below would already indicate a general increase in pollution from around July, which seems to coincide with when the road closures began to impact. Lets also acknowledge the impact of background pollution, which we would need to understand to make judgements.

Paul Green ● 2222d

The maps are modelled levels matched to the monitoring stations. The High Road station is the only one in W4.Yes, the A4 is the major source of pollution in Chiswick, followed by the High Road. The highest levels drop off quite quickly, but it spreads a background level of pollution over the wider area. The levels are not be as high as the smog of the 50's, but the way they spread hasn't changed.

Tom Pike ● 2222d

I was just about to post the same question, Anita.Also, for Tom Pike, do you have any data for after August 20 as the new traffic measures did not come into effect until after that.

Mairi Franses ● 2222d

Anita, fully agree, you beat me to it. The Labour MP for Ealing has identified the impact of displaced traffic on already congested roads as a major concern. Tom, as a reminder here are my questions regarding the letter you signed. I am sure a methodical scientist must have these answers:* what data do you have to substantiate the fact that there is 'a local boom' on the High Road. Do you have stats on spending or interviews from a representative number of businesses? Did you also understand how many shoppers had come specifically because a road was now closed that had not come before when that road was open?* IS there separate data and surveys for TGT and DR?* With most now WFH, how do spending patterns compare with areas that have seen no local road closures?* How does the closure of Bread Ahead support the idea of a local boom* can you explain the linkage of the Chiswick flower market to any road closures or restrictions in Chiswick? Again, how many attendees only came because TGT was closed?* Which hard to let sites have now been occupied, and who spoke to the new occupants to understand what if any role a local road closure might have had in their decision. Can you provide clear quotes to support this?Looking forward to seeing the analysis

Paul Green ● 2222d

Paul, I am booking myself in for therapy and will sue you for the costs!  : )

Adrian Irving ● 2222d

Thank your greeny, lefties, who think cycling is healthier. There is more Co2  chucking off a sweaty body thany anything that comes out of a car. Look around and see how many middle classes are driving 4x4’s around Chiswick; do they care about exhaust fumes polluting the atmos? Doubt it!

c james ● 2222d

Another issue with the year on year comparison is that the Low Emission Bus route restrictions have come into place on Chiswick High Road. Before its implementation a Hounslow Council report showed that half of the Nitrogen Dioxide emissions on the High Road came from buses so these will have been substantially reduced.This trend is probably being helped by the replacement of privately owned diesel vehicles in the area due to the forthcoming ULEZ.It is perhaps better to look at the data for particulates which are far more harmful to health. There doesn't seem to have been a pronounced decline in those over the year on the High Road.The bigger problem with using these figures to try and claim the council's road measures have reduced pollution, as has already been pointed out by other people, is that there is no data for the areas where traffic has increased such as Sutton Lane North, Acton Lane and South Parade. Even here the electrification of the 94 will mean that pollution might not be much higher on a year on year basis but it cannot be denied that it is much higher than it would have been without the closures of Turnham Green Terrace and Fisher's Lane.

Paul Corcoran ● 2222d

Paul, you’ve made an assertion without any data, and claimed it cannot be denied. Ok for an article of faith, but not a sound basis for decision making.I suggest we wait until we have traffic counts on all the affected roads. If overall traffic is up, then it’s reasonable to assume that pollution is likely to be higher too and the measures have not delivered one of their main aims.

Tom Pike ● 2222d

Hi Tom, talking about assertions without any data, I am sure you saw my questions about the letter you signed. It would be great to get the data and questionnaires behind that, because of course you would not want to write a public letter to a government minister 'talking about assertions without any data'.As for the pollution question, which assertions are you saying are made without data? The reduction in total buses and the electrication of the 94 etc? Or the increase in traffic and congestion? As to the latter, I think evidence from dozens of posters and the front page story counts for something. Also, as a scientist I am sure you understand the need to establish a counterfactual i.e what would have happened to traffic on these roads without the local closures.Otherwise, the data is meaningless. Traffic seems to be heading down after a peak last Friday, no doubt due to the reintroduction of WFH guideance. Leisure activities and sports much reduced, with no crowds at local stadiums.If you compare 30th Sept this year, in partial lockdown and with no sports or cultural events. You cannot then look at 30 Sept last year, with say major roadworks on A406 near Chiswick roundabout and both Chelsea and QPR at home. Then say, oh look, traffic has fallen, the closures had no impact. But I am sure you know that.

Paul Green ● 2222d

There is clear bias in the temporary cyscleway.  The council have mis-used an "experimental" traffic order.  A class action s coming across London on this.  And the whole thing will have to be ripped out for breach of the law. An incompetent council, playing politics rather than focusing on what is needed and following the law.By the way I am a cyclist and not a car owner.

David Riley ● 2222d

Tom, by the same token your data is incomplete and therefore needs to be disregarded.Are you disputing that traffic on Acton Lane, Sutton Lane North and South Parade is not considerably higher than it was at the same time last year? If not, is it not reasonable to assume air quality in these areas has deteriorated?

Paul Corcoran ● 2222d

Both Paul's,Data can never represent everything - that's no reasons to disregard it all! In this case the data is a running monthly average to reduce the effects of any particular event - that's mainly the weather conditions. I'm not disputing anybody's experience of traffic levels, but nobody should claim that experience is representative, beyond dispute! Traffic counts should used to provide an overall assessment.

Tom Pike ● 2222d

https://airqualitynews.com/2020/03/09/air-pollution-from-tyres-1000-worse-than-from-exhaust-claims-study/Also from brakes...Street leaves were rejected by the Environment Agency years ago for composting because of the metals from traffic in the collection.   

Philippa Bond ● 2222d

Hi Tom, I will park your non answer on the pollution front, though I would really like to hear your thoughts on the counter factual,But please, do not keep us in suspense. Please share all your data on the High Road retail 'boom'. It will I am sure be detailed and concise.

Paul Green ● 2222d

The current generation of electric cars will probably make pollution from tyres worse because they are so heavy.They will be slightly better on particulates brakes as they have regen braking, but they still need conventional brakes to come to a complete stop.Lower speeds will actually reduce pollution from tyres and brakes!They haven't got the current measures right, but at least they are trying to do something.  The only way to get air pollution down is to have less cars on the roads.I'm not sure of the figures for London, but nationally around two thirds of journeys are under 5 miles.  Many of those are under 2 miles.For most of the population those journeys could be cycled or walked - especially in London where it is very flat.  All the traffic and 20mph limits also mean that a bike is quicker than a car for the majority of journeys.These measures need to be tweaked, but it doesn't alter the fact that they are trying to do something useful.

Al Webber ● 2221d

Blanket 20mph across London would be great.  Speed limits for cycles and e-scooters too.  Time for change.

Philippa Bond ● 2221d

20mph is far too slow. It causes more accidents.

Steve Taylor ● 2221d

I think 20mph is ridiculous, on the continent I have noticed a lot of towns now have 20kph. More realistic.

Nicholas Beard ● 2218d

Did you mean 20kph - that's even slower than 20mph?There are still a lot of cars travelling too fast when it is 20mph - and too many anyway.  I think we should be questioning the delivery companies on whether they are using the best methods for organising deliveries and ourselves on whether we really need everything yesterday.

Philippa Bond ● 2218d

"I'm not sure of the figures for London, but nationally around two thirds of journeys are under 5 miles.  Many of those are under 2 miles. For most of the population those journeys could be cycled or walked - especially in London where it is very flat. "Great idea.  Now off you go you have to do a shop for a family of 4 including meat, fish, vegetables and a pack of 16 loo rolls.  Good luck getting that on your bike - and you have to ride in today's rain.  Of course if you want to walk you have to live on Staveley Road so you have a good 12-15 min walk to Sainsbury's I do hope you will not have a problem with the weight of your goodsNot everyone lives 5 mins walk from the shops, not everyone can carry large bags.But of course those sort of people do not count for the pro-cycling zealots...and I speak as a committed, if fair weather only, cyclist

Justin Stephenson ● 2217d

This has been on TV this weekend while I have been working - luckily more than once so I got to catch up  on what I missed.https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000n990Why put so many negatives in the way of a positive change?It is not necessary.  Like other people who don't have cars you can order the heavy stuff online every so many weeks and just do the local stuff by bike or cargo bike.  I don't think it will work too well on a racing bike!  In other countries they cycle in the snow - everything stops here when there are the wrong sort of leaves on the line.

Philippa Bond ● 2217d

It's not all about shopping - Amazon, Deliveroo and Ocado. Plus some of us oiks, need to drive to work.

Russell Pearson ● 2217d

Or need to deliver to relatives.

Janice Evans ● 2217d

I watched the programme Philippa recommended. There is no denying that change will have to come, but it has to be properly managed change. Rushing through schemes because of the perceived urgency created by the pandemic will inevitably lead to many of them turning out not to be fair or even effective. It was also interesting to see that in Paris they have deployed armies of bicycle gendarmes to tackle cyclists breaking the law -something that here seems to be anathema to our most vocal politicised cycling proponents. A bit of give and take on all sides would undoubtedly help.

Bruce Hammal ● 2217d

"It was also interesting to see that in Paris they have deployed armies of bicycle gendarmes to tackle cyclists breaking the law -something that here seems to be anathema to our most vocal politicised cycling proponents."Of course they have. They are sensible and don't have an inept Mayor. Likewise they have shut pubs and cafes for another two weeks in Paris to assist with avoiding the spread of Covid.  However, in London, the mayor sits back and lets the people do as they please in order to win political favour..

Steve Taylor ● 2217d

So did you watch the programme Steve or did you just see it as another chance to have a go at the Mayor that you object to?  The previous one shelved a lot of schemes and seemed to favour vanity projects.

Philippa Bond ● 2217d

The new traffics measures in Chiswick are horrendous and actually generating more congestion. I was chatting to a pal yesterday who used to do all her shopping in Chiswick, she lives in Acton she rarely comes now. We effectively have a one way system now, plus all the roadworks so it is definitely starting to hit local trade from those living in the surrounding area. In terms of Paris you have to remember they are ahead of us on the curve I reckon it is only a matter of time before we have a lockdown but it will be shorter than the last one. I feel so sorry for all traders, if only people would follow 3 simple steps, social distance, face mask and hand cleaning we would be able to control the level of infections. People are crazy it isn’t hard and would save lives. Nothing to do with the mayor or government just selfish people it’s up to all of us to do our bit to control the spread.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2217d

I like the way numbers are often presented and interpreted. For example, last year the number of vehicles was different from this year and one of the reasons is COVID-19. The vehicles are getting better every year, producing less emissions - so this also affects the numbers shown by the monitors.

Alex Shpinkov ● 2217d

"Nothing to do with the mayor or government" Of course people are thick and selfish. That's why we need an effective mayor and government to deal with people breaking the laws regarding Covid and cycling. In times like these we need strong leadership and control. You can't rely on the great unwashed to do the right thing.

Steve Taylor ● 2217d

"So did you watch the programme Steve No I didn't

Steve Taylor ● 2217d

It is not as if there were no cars in it.  There were fewer.  It was interesting to see familiar streets with so many cycles and the support that has been given to cyclists together with the jobs created for cycle mechanics.

Philippa Bond ● 2216d

"jobs created for cycle mechanics."Just a wild guess but I would suggest that jobs created by car manufacture and sales is pretty substantial and possibly higher paid so as to boost the economy.

Steve Taylor ● 2216d

Phillipa Bond: "Like other people who don't have cars you can order the heavy stuff online every so many weeks and just do the local stuff by bike or cargo bike.  I don't think it will work too well on a racing bike! "So what about those people who cannot order on on-line (see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54371469). No matter how you spin it, there will always be a sub-section of the population that actually need to travel by car to the shops.  It is a small sub-section but it still exists.  Sadly you and your fellow zealots would prefer to ignore the people in that sub-section and hope they cease to exist.  As I have said before, if you consider it is easy to avoid car use then do a weekly shop for a family of 4 at Sainsbury's using bus/bike or walking only but on condition that you have to live at least 10 mins walk from a bus stop and at least 15 mins from the shops - and it must be raining heavily when you do it.

Justin Stephenson ● 2216d

Philippa - you seem to be advocating shopping online, walking, cycling so clearly the end to any high street. People use cars for all sorts of reasons and I would not begin to lecture anyone on using their car! the new schemes as mad, the cycle lanes will not be used 24/7, they are causing terrible congestion so pollution will only get use. Closing TGT & FL is making getting about for local people a nightmare. Given technology there are so many better ways to managing traffic, local roads for local people etc. We should create our own Chiswick council and show them how it’s done 😂😂😂😂

Jayne Thorburn ● 2216d

I have been wondering about what colour passports you will be issuing.  Do you really think that online shopping will stop even if and when companies like Amazon pay more tax as they should be?I know perfectly well that a lot of people are not online and do not have smartphones. I have been dealing with elderly relatives for the last fifteen years and they weren't/didn't have smartphones.  I have posted about organisations that help people when they are not online and where it was possible to get silver surfer lessons on here for years as it was obviously becoming a problem.  Yes, loyalty to companies is a big mistake as they just increase the cost each year and if you are unable to swap companies you are stuck.  Many companies now just tell you to look online for more information in their literature.   Many regulars on here know that.  However many people have relatives who do order stuff for them.  When you need medical supplies you will often be expected to have children or carers or friends who will order for you if and when you can't yourself. If you are unemployed you will be expected to use a computer to show you are looking for work etc.  What is happening now when libraries where many use computers are closed?However, apparently only about half the households in London have a car.

Philippa Bond ● 2216d

We should create our own Chiswick council I understand at one point Chiswick was part of Hammersmith but I don't know more than that.When you put your business hat on, it makes me think of a larger conglomerate with multiple entities. At some point, you gussy something up and sell it off for whatever purpose. Toward that end, with the asset being Chiswick, is it possible to sell it (more or less) to Hammersmith or to Ealing? Or, as Jayne says, go solo. Maybe we can get our own MP in the process.

David Lesniak ● 2216d

"However, apparently only about half the households in London have a car."38.3 million cars in UK56.1 million adults in UK

Loraine Pemberton ● 2216d

People have been proposing UDI (unilateral declaration of independence) for Chiswick for years and now more than ever it is clear why. The specific interests and requirements of this large and important part of the borough are routinely ignored for reasons that are purely political and often vindictive. Effectively the wishes of the residents of W4 are irrelevant to those holding a large majority in Hounslow House and this will never change. Effectively we have taxation without representation. Until a recent move I spent most of my adult life living literally one street "over the border" in Hammersmith and Fulham and the difference is astonishing. Again it is a Labour controlled council though it does occasionally change hands and this need to keep on its toes means that I was never aware that any one part of the bourough was either favoured or disadvantaged. We also had (in  Andy Slaughter) a very effective and responsive MP who having once been leader of H&F Council had all the knowledge and contacts to get things done. I hate living under Hounslow Council and it has absolutely nothing to do with political allegiances. I would vote for independence like a shot but of course nobody would listen!

Bruce Hammal ● 2216d

Hounslow will never give up its cash cow, Chiswick.

Steve Taylor ● 2216d

All boroughs seem to be structured to contain areas of deprivation and areas of considerable wealth, never laid more bare than by the Grenfell Tower in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. I doubt this is coincidence.

David Roberts ● 2216d

UK and London are not the same thing.

Philippa Bond ● 2216d

Mmmm. I am wondering where the areas of deprivation in Richmond Borough are?

Steve Taylor ● 2215d

I have a friend who lives in Richmond and he is convinced that the borough swings from Conservative to Lib Dem entirely based  on which party has the most popular policy on bin collection!

Bruce Hammal ● 2215d

Oh isn't London in the UK ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2215d

"entirely based  on which party has the most popular policy on bin collection!"I can believe that because it is a well run Council irrespective of whether Lib Dems or Conservatives are running it. People have little to complain about but they are proud of their borough so God forbid you have a useless Recycling and Street cleaning Lead Cabinet Member. Unlike Hounslow where the majority in the Borough are oblivious to litter, fly-tipping, Wheelie bins scattered all over the place and pollution caused by inept traffic management and road closures.

Steve Taylor ● 2215d

I thought that we were supposed to be working from home again if we can?  It would be interesting to know more about who this traffic is ie is it people trying to go back to normal routines when life isn't normal?  Is it people doing something different? Are people making any attempt at staggering working times or shopping times?  Aren't employers more inclined to encourage and accept flexible working when possible nowadays?  Unpalatable as it is if you are stuck in the traffic you are complaining about you have to admit that you are a part of that traffic.

Philippa Bond ● 2215d

We cannot not all skip to work through the meadow Phillipa

Paul Fisher ● 2215d

Or cartwheel - but an awful lot of people have changed the way that they work.

Philippa Bond ● 2215d

"Aren't employers more inclined to encourage and accept flexible working when possible nowadays? "They were but many more are calling staff back to the office now. It will take another lockdown for employers to rethink their strategies.

Steve Taylor ● 2214d

Considering how you're not a fan of comparisons between different cycle tracks in London areas Loraine, I find it surprising you're happy to say London can be compared to the UK as a whole.Philippa is pretty much spot on - 46% of households do not own a car in London, 40% have 1 and 12% have 2 - http://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-12-how-many-cars-are-there-in-london.pdf.In the UK, this is 77% (2017) - https://www.racfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/car-ownership-in-great-britain-leibling-171008-report.pdf

Tom Trower ● 2214d

Not what this says Steve:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/08/nearly-75-of-city-firms-reviewing-office-space-provision

Al Webber ● 2214d

Totally agree regarding 'City' firms but those aren't the folk generally using their cars. I  agree that there are huge savings to be made in downsizing expensive office space in the cities. I was referring more to SME's and out of town firms who I believe are slowly getting more and more staff into the office. 

Steve Taylor ● 2214d

Another really interesting fact is that since March 2019 to March 2020 the  decrease of car ownership in London is 0.2% ! This is despite the demonising of motorists by the cycling fraternity and their supporters  plus the evangelising by some people that all of us should give up our cars but cycle or walk to do heavy shopping irrespective of our ability to do that. At the moment I walk to do my shopping but because I can only carry so much this means I have to do more trips to the shops, which in the current health crisis puts me at risk as well as all the other people who are vulnerable. And before you or anyone else says I can do on line shopping, what's the point it will be delivered by a motorised vehicle, so no benefit.The sooner that the ardent cycling fraternity and their supporters accept that many people in our diverse communities actually need to use motorised transport and stop their incessant preaching, especially that, the better.According to TfL, 54% of London households own at least 1 car but many have 2 or 3 ! I know several households in Chiswick and NW London who own 4+ cars. Therefore its reasonable to assume that the 46% of households not owning a car is not entirely accurate.However, my main point is that trying to force people to change their views and lifestyle rarely succeeds, more carrot and much less stick is the way forward, and please stop the soap box evangelising 🙏

Loraine Pemberton ● 2214d

You'll find the only evangelising I'm doing here is statistics. I'm glad you now at least are up to speed with Philippa on that London sits at *roughly* (46%) half of households not owning a car.You're going to have explain this bit though:' I know several households in Chiswick and NW London who own 4+ cars. Therefore its reasonable to assume that the 46% of households not owning a car is not entirely accurate.'One household having many cars does not affect the figures of a household that does not own one.

Tom Trower ● 2214d