Forum Topic

Bicycles and Cars

It looks like it is going to be easier to get around on bicycles now.  Better and safer road access and facilities.  But shouldn't that result in more accountability and awareness when we ride our bicycles?  I know bicycles cause far fewer accidents than cars, but it is common when crossing the road at a crossing (Pelican or Zebra) that a bicycle ignores the crossing and rides straight through.  If there is traffic crossing, they often ride onto the pavement and join again after the junction.  These are not isolated instances; it happens most time I cross (often with children).  Strange that the person on the bike never wants to make eye contact when they do this.  I know cars can do this as well, but at least there is a chance they will get caught on camera and fined.So, with the new world order, new laws, that may bring more of a sense of equality...1. Free compulsory registration of all bicycle riders, age 12 or over.2. Registration provided after free online exam and cycle proficiency test.3. All riders must display registration number clearly when riding bicycle.  Either on bicycle or on person.4. Dedicated cycle inspectors, that can stop riders for any breach of traffic law or for not clearly displaying registration number and issue on the spot fines.5. Extend traffic warden role to cover the cycle inspector role.6. Camera enforcement of all traffic laws covering bicycle users.7. If there is surplus revenue from fines it would be put back into cycle schemes.

Kieran Fox ● 2229d49 Comments

I guess it is pretty autumnal out there... time for this old chestnut again.

Paul Scullion ● 2229d

8. Cyclists to NOT cycle on pavements

Loraine Pemberton ● 2229d

Sounds like a discussion coming up !

John Southey ● 2229d

no need for all that bureaucracy....just make everyone have a chip inplant to monitor all the sins in ones day

Robert Glen ● 2229d

You seem to have forgetten that these new measures are supposed to benefit pedestrians too. So shouldn't these new measures result in more accountability an awareness in pedestrian as well ? As motorists and cyclists I'm sure we've all experienced pedestrians possibly using their mobile phones walking right out in front of us causing us to brake sharply and possibly being hit from behind. Strange these people never seem to make eye contact as they're still concentrating on their phones. Same with traffic lights. How often do you see a pedestrian setting off across the road when the lightshave already changed, holding up all the traffic ?  So what I propose are1 Free compulsory registration of all pedestrians over the age of 12.2 This after passing a free online exam and a reaction test while texting on a mobile phone. 3 All pedestrians must display number plates front and back.4. New pedestrian wardens to issue on the spot finesfor all walking in the road and not walking in a straight line without adequate excuse.  5. Failure to pay fines will result in a home lockdown until all fines are paid.      6. Plus of course plenty of additional surveillancecamera to record any infringements enabling fines tobe subsequently issued.michael adams ...

Michael Adams ● 2229d

Well said, Michael.

Richard Greenhough ● 2229d

Great proposals Michael.  Accountability, that’s what it’s all about.I think they call it “Jaywalking” in some countries and is illegal in many of them.

Kieran Fox ● 2229d

So what I propose is:1 Free compulsory registration of all dog walkers over the age of 12.2 This after passing a free online exam and a reaction test while displaying close control of their dog.3 All dog walkers must display number plates front and back.4. New dog walker wardens to issue on the spot fines for all dogs not on short leads and under control at all times and the walking of multiple dogs without consideration for other footpath users.5. Failure to pay fines will result in a home lockdown until all fines are paid.      6. Plus of course plenty of additional surveillance camera to record any infringements enabling fines to be subsequently issued.

Paul Scullion ● 2229d

" I think they call it “Jaywalking” in some countries and is illegal in many of them."They do indeed, they even have signs on the lampposts to that effect in the US. However as the word isn't that common in the UK, no doubt some devious pedestrians would try and use that as an excuse in their defence.Basically you can't give them an inch. michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 2229d

What about cats ?They kill enough birds.Maybe they should be fitted with number plates as well.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 2229d

I don't know that that would be practical.  Possibly have the dogs ear tagged like a cow?  When the dog dies you could reuse it on your next dog and reregister?

Kieran Fox ● 2229d

Sorry missed the cats.  Tags would work just as well!

Kieran Fox ● 2229d

It would need to be attached from one ear tip to the other in order to be big enough to be picked up by the ANPR cameras. It would then be visible front and back assuming it's not one of those droopy eared dogs.

Paul Scullion ● 2229d

Can there also be a DNA database so the excrement left lying around our parks and pavements can be traced?

John Hall ● 2229d

An extension of 'Track and Trace'? There'll be plenty of spare lab capacity once the virus has faded away, or when the government abandons its present 'Trick or Treat' scheme.

Peter Evans ● 2229d

...but dont let a few facts get in the way of you guys taking the mickey, such as:-1) since 2016 it's been a legal requirement for dogs to be microchipped, perhaps the same law should be applied to cyclists ? It's  quick, fairly painless and about £15, I know where I'd like the chip to be located on the male lycra clad cyclists 😉2) responsible dog owners carry Insurance on their Pets both of mine are fully covered, much like my car insurance. How many cyclists carry comprehensive insurance ?3) both my rescue dogs have their DNA registered with their Vet and the recognised Laboratory who did the tests. Anyone who wants to check out DNA faeces 💩💩💩 not picked up by the owners, I'm happy to oblige 👍. Many dog owners, especially those who give a Forever Home to rescues do have a DNA test done. To determine their DNA makeup. Perhaps we should have DNA tests done on cyclists who are persistent crashers of Red Lights, cycle wrong way on roads and cycle on pavements  ?4) dog owners who don't pick up their dogs faeces are irresponsible and inconsiderate, much like 🚴‍♀️🚴‍♀️🚴‍♀️ who routinely break the law and do so because they know it's  almost impossible to track and trace them 🔎🔍Many thanks to Chiswicks very own Comedy Club, but hey gentleman don't give up your day jobs - bless you all 👏

Loraine Pemberton ● 2229d

"Many thanks to Chiswicks very own Comedy Club, but hey gentleman don't give up your day jobs - bless you all"Thankfully we have the razor sharp wit of Ms Pemberton to entertain us.Her schtick is rather one dimensional but she exploits it to the max.

Will Watson ● 2229d

In reply to the first two points ...1) Microchip the cycles. Will help in recovering stolen bikes. 2) Compulsory insurance for cyclists - good idea. I gather it’s a lot, lot cheaper than Motor Vehicle Insurance.

Andrew Jones ● 2229d

Yes, in the Land of the Free you get fined if you risk walking across a road when the sign says "Don't Walk" even if there is no motor vehicle in sight for a mile each way. Somehow I can't see that catching on in London.

Richard Greenhough ● 2229d

"but hey gentleman don't give up your day jobs - bless you all 👏"Err. This is their day job.

Steve Taylor ● 2229d

SteveMea Culpa - you're spot on 👍

Loraine Pemberton ● 2229d

Thanks Will, delighted that I entertain you, just wish I could say same about you 💤💤💤

Loraine Pemberton ● 2229d

The two or three abreast speedwalking buggy pushers bearing down the pavement.The speeding cyclists on pavements or shared pavements where there is no notification or not enough that the pavement is shared unlike the bus lanes which are a red colour in comparison to roads.The illegal e-scooterists weaving in and out of pedestrians at speed. A lot of our roads weren't just built for cars!

Philippa Bond ● 2229d

They could wear little jackets like racing greyhounds do, with their bar codes printed on it.  michael adams

Michael Adams ● 2228d

To Richard and Kieran - As a card-carrying member of the Land of the Free I can tell you with utmost certainty people do not automatically get fined for jaywalking as you represent. If that were the case, New York City could balance the budget with a single rush hour sting outside of Grand Central.  It's a bit like saying cyclists and e-scooter users get fined for using the pavement in London. Technically it is on the books as illegal but it is not enforced and we all know that to be the case.I find accuracy is best when promoting your cause. People are far more likely to take into account your view.

David Lesniak ● 2228d

David Lesniak wrote -quoteTo Richard and Kieran - As a card-carrying member of the Land of the Free...I find accuracy is best when promoting your cause. People are far more likely to take into account your view.unquoteOnly Kieren never mentioned the US as imposing fines.That was Richard. Kieren only specified "some countries". And so, as might be expected, at least according to to WikiIn Singapore, jaywalking is an offence. A fine of $50 is payable for the first offence. Repeat offenders can be charged $1000 and a jail term of 3 months, but the latter is rarely imposed.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 2228d

Alright, David, in the USA people CAN get fined for jaywalking, just as in London people CAN get fined for riding bicycles on the pavement. It may not happen often but it can do so occasionally. I will admit, when I did it somewhere in the USA I just got told off by the cops, not fined. Before then I hadn't realised that it was actually an offence to do so there.

Richard Greenhough ● 2228d

RG > "Before then I hadn't realised that it was actually an offence to do so there."Here is an interesting article explaining how the offence of jaywalking came about:Jaywalking: How the car industry outlawed crossing the road

John Whitworth ● 2228d

Thanks, John, most interesting, including how the term came about. Perhaps we need a new word to describe those walking around with mobile phones clapped to their ears, oblivious to all around them ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2228d

Kieran. We have 1 million unlicensed cars on the road. We have a global pandemic, untold economic fall out and your petty little mind has zeroed in on this. You really need some perspective son.

Tony Mansell ● 2227d

"The illegal e-scooterists weaving in and out of pedestrians at speed."We need to urgently take the lead of Sweden and make these e-scooters legal and share the cycle lanes. It works perfectly in Sweden and has done for some time (in Stockholm)

Steve Taylor ● 2227d

1 million? That sounds like far more unlicensed cars than I'd expect there to be. What's the source for that figure?

Andrew Jones ● 2227d

I found a report that the DfT said in Nov 2019 that 600,000+ unlicensed vehicles were 'on the road', but no breakdown (in the newspaper report at least) of how many of these vehicles were being driven, or how long they'd been unlicensed for.

Andrew Jones ● 2227d

Yawn. See threads past.

Ken Munn ● 2227d

So the numbers from paperwork for the registration as off road or scrapped don't match the numbers that should have paid tax. That's not surprising. I suppose there's no-one to check now that it isn't obvious due to an out of date disc on the car.  Wasn't there a problem before with fake discs?

Philippa Bond ● 2227d

You do get ANPR used more these days than previously e.g. ANPR cars driving around looking for unlicensed vehicles that are parked on the road.Doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of unlicensed vehicles, but didn't occur to me that it could be as high as even what the DfT said, let alone the 1000000+ that Tony mentioned.

Andrew Jones ● 2227d

"You do get ANPR used more these days than previously e.g. ANPR cars driving around looking for unlicensed vehicles that are parked on the road."Is that the main source of detecting unlicensed vehicles?

Steve Taylor ● 2227d

Wow Tony,  Petty!  That’s a cruel blow! I hope you are not shouting this reply from your bike as you fly through a red light.

Kieran Fox ● 2226d

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/be-inspired/magazine/issue-46/dataset/The map shows journeys by hired bike.  It helps to give some insight into where it would be a good idea to place them.

Philippa Bond ● 2226d

No idea!This article (from Feb 2020) gives some info. Obviously things may have changed since then!https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8021389/DVLA-crackdown-car-tax-evasion-20-UK-locations.html

Andrew Jones ● 2226d

http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=condogwalkercase001.htm

Paul Scullion ● 2216d

Interesting. Are the byelaws still displayed by the entrances to the common? Most parks and open spaces used to have a "no cycling" policy among their list of prohibitions. I know people do routinely cycle on these footpaths and usually no harm comes of it but the article states that the footpath is shared between cyclists and pedestrians. I don't know if this refers to the legal position or is just an ad hoc arrangement which has grown up over the years. Obviously the dog owner thinks the byelaws are on her side, or at least were in 2016.

Bruce Hammal ● 2216d

That was supposed to be a reply to Paul's link to the w4.com item about the legal tussle between cyclist and dog walker. Somehow it has gone to the end of the line so is cut of from the conversation. I will get the hang of this one day!

Bruce Hammal ● 2216d

" I know people do routinely cycle on these footpaths and usually no harm comes of it "But in this instance harm has come of it because now he is suing for £50,000. Surely if he shouldn't have been cycling there his case should be thrown out of court? It will be very interesting to see the outcome of this case.

Steve Taylor ● 2215d

It will indeed. The law is a curious thing - look at what happens from time to time when an intruder  is caught in the act by the householder and the householder uses force. The most notorious of these cases was that of  Tony Martin who shot and killed a burglar. Even though the burglar commited the original offence by entering the property, Mr Martin was prosecuted and convicted. Not that I am equating the seriousness of that case with the dog walker v cyclist story but it shows that just because someone breaks the law it doesn't automatically remove their rights if they subsequently come to harm. Your witness.....

Bruce Hammal ● 2215d

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/baby-deer-dies-after-being-19065092

Paul Scullion ● 2215d

https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/baby-deer-dies-after-being-19065092Yes it never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people are in Richmond Park. Letting dogs loose next to the deer or walking between the female deers and their offspring. Recipes for disaster.

Steve Taylor ● 2215d

So the temptation to accidentally stumble in front of cyclists illegally using the pavement in the hope that they'll fall off, should be resisted!

Peter Evans ● 2214d

"So the temptation to accidentally stumble in front of cyclists"There are many temptations when it comes to uncouth lycra louts.

Steve Taylor ● 2214d