Forum Topic

Traffic mayhem. No longer able to support high st shops.

Good news and bad. Good news , we will no longer contribute towards pollution on high road. Bad News, we can no longer support all the lovely independent shops and stalls. After over 15 years living in Grove Park we are now struggling to carry on as normal. My wife and I rely on our car as main form of transport. Unable to cycle and can walk only short distances. Last week I went on two occasions to bring back elderly relative from north side of Chiswick. Our journey of normally under 30 mins took well over an hour on both occasions. Mainly sitting in heavily queuing traffic on the roads we were now forced to use. Our lovely trips to chat to local stall holders and independent retails have overnight become a nightmare journey and we are completely having to rethink our shopping habits. This will mean moving more to online (we already do this). We can not justify spending over and hour to return from the high road. The situation is about to get worse for us too once the south Chiswick traffic scheme is implemented (any day now). This situation will get worse as traffics increases when weather deteriorates and people who are  feel less inclined to walk or Cycle.  Even if you can walk or cycle there is a limit to what you can carry shopping wise. I know we all need to rethink our travel habits but this will kill an already struggling high road.

Sean Wales ● 2274d45 Comments

I walk around Chiswick every day, and have rarely seen the congestion of which you talk. Certainly, compared with pre-Covid congestion, things seem much more fluid.

Ken Munn ● 2274d

Thing is Sean traffic is really light at the momemt.Left Chiswick at 730am last week to go to Manchester.In normal times I would be out the door at 615am to get away from the build up.Can you imagine what it will be like when everything gets back to normal post covid and the school runs.Plus the pollution these clowns will produce with their stampy little feet schemes.I despair

Mick Collins ● 2274d

I drive around the area daily. The congestion has gotten worse with the exception of the seasonal lull of August holidays.Wait until school starts back.Sean's story is any trader's worst nightmare. Thank you, Ken, for attempting to gloss over it with your fluidity.

David Lesniak ● 2274d

David, I can only speak of what I've seen, not of what others surmise.

Ken Munn ● 2274d

Consider those who are no longer working from home...Listening in last week to someone on the next table at lunch. He works in the City, a firm with 35 employees. His office has been reorganised for social separation: capacity is now reduced to 11 people at a time. The staff are divided into 3 teams. Team A goes in on Monday, B on Tuesday, C on Wednesday. Thursday/Friday any staff who want/need to be in the office book in. So only a maximum of one third of staff are coming in on any one day. Put another way, commuting in this firm has been reduced by two-thirds. This is eerily similar to an analysis from Morgan Stanley’s research unit AlphaWise that shows that, to date, only 34% of staff in the UK who are able to to return to work have done so. Perhaps those predicting grid lock and pollution are reckoning workplace occupation (and thus commuting) will return to 100% pre Covid. That’s not going to happen – especially if you take into account the poor sods who will lose their jobs. Fewer people going to work, fewer commuting journeys.As an aside, I walked the length of Sloane Street last week. All the high fashion stores: Armani, Valentino, Gucci, Cartier, etc. Almost every shop was customer-free at middayish. Tumbleweed. Traffic on the Kings Road, Knightsbridge, Sloane Street was much much lighter than pre-Covid. There is a London-wide crisis of retail, perhaps a national one. It's not just Chiswick. In fact I'd think that Chiswick is doing - relatively - better than the West End.

Ken Munn ● 2274d

There is a very good case for closing either TGT or Fishers Lane to traffic except buses, but to close both at the same time is lunacy. And the whole experiment of generating more space for pedestrian social distancing on TGT and CHR is a misconceived eyesore. Nobody steps down from the pavement. Outside All-Bar-One, for example, pedestrians pass between the two rows of tables rather than step down into the plastic "pen".

Robert Fish ● 2274d

Closing Fisher's Lane is fine (it was a dangerous turn anyway) but closing TGT is sheer lunacy. If we want to keep our lovely mix of shops we cannot allow TGT to be closed. The alternative is boarded up buildings and more mobile telephone shops.

Chris Blackwell ● 2274d

Agreed, Chris. Better to close Fishers Lane on safety grounds, and find some other way of improving the pedestrian and cyclist experience on TGT. Limited hours pedestrian-only zone, say 10.00 to 15.00?

Robert Fish ● 2274d

Agreed, Chris. Better to close Fishers Lane on safety grounds, and find some other way of improving the pedestrian and cyclist experience on TGT. Limited hours pedestrian-only zone, say 10.00 to 15.00?

Robert Fish ● 2274d

Apologies for duplication. Damn technology!

Robert Fish ● 2274d

Best option would be to make TGT one way (with a contraflow cycle lane)and Fishers lane one way in the opposite direction.With a single carriageway in TGT, there would be room for the other measures.With Fisher's lane, one way traffic would sort out the big problem of people meeting under the bridge, where it is narrow.We do need to get people out of their cars, but there are some journeys where cars are needed, and making people drive a mile extra just causes extra pollution.  I get what they are trying to do, but they are going too far with it.What would make more difference is for the government to bring in some kind of strict liability law like a lot of places on the continent have.  Combined with the 20mph limits that are going in, it would make most people comfortable cycling on the road.

Al Webber ● 2274d

Sounds sensible, Al. But Fishers Lane would have to be one-way North, to address the problem of the dangerous junction with CHR. This would leave TGT as one-way South, and perpetuate the problem of pollution from vehicles backed up in a queue from the traffic lights.

Robert Fish ● 2274d

Al, that suggestion is far too sensible for those responsible for "designing" these schemes in Hounslow House. However, I disagree with the idea of a contraflow cycle lane on TGT - if pedestrians are expecting traffic to come from one direction, they are more likely to walk in front of a bicycle coming from the other. With a one-way system there would be room to widen the pavements and have a dedicated cycle lane plus a central carriageway for motor vehicles. Cyclists wanting to access shops on TGT could go along Elliott Road; through cyclists would not find using Fishers Lane took them much longer.

Richard Greenhough ● 2274d

My argument from the outset is that there needs to be a broader coherent plan (including LBH and LBE actually talking) and clear rationale for each closure. TGT closure makes no sense, it doesnt make it safer to cycle and there was already effective pavement extensions, not that anyone seems to use them. In contrast, the Fishers Lane closure can create a safer cycling route, ideally as part of a longer route down to the A4. THis in turn removes the need to cycle on TGT.It would not be sensible to divert the E3 from TGT, even in one direction. It already struggles to run on time and people want it to go to the shops, not divert up Goldhawk Road. The eastern end of CHR onto King St and GOldhawk Rd is already a nightmare. Traffic the other evening westbound on King St was queueing all the way back to Ravenscourt Park,and southbound on Goldhawk Rd is awful. The lunacy is that buses sit in these queues, we cant all cycle but the supporters refuse to acknoweledge this point or the detrminental impact on buses that the closures are causing. Traffic levels will recover, whether its 6 months or a year. Plus schools and cold wet weather. THats when the real nightmare begins.

Paul Green ● 2274d

Well Ken, if "commuting ...... has been reduced by two-thirds."  That means at a stroke the commuting rat runners charging through Grove Park will be reduced to a third,  no need to make drastic road closures hampering our lives.

Jennifer Selig ● 2274d

Paul  Have you actually tried an electric bike or trike?  There are a lot more different types now. It would be good to give them the space and chance for safe cycling.I remember people spilling out of the tube station all over the pavement as they met people walking in the opposite direction (and a bus stop in the way).  When more people go back to using the tube won't it be busy at the time that they need to be at work/college/school etc?

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

Philippa, you keep talking about huge crowds that simply dont exist. And if they return its because its safe to do so. And no I cant ride a bike, electric or otherwise. Why is it so hard to accept that not everyone can get on a bike, its an incredibly closed mindset. I still dotn see how closing TGT changes the 'crowds' scenario you keep posting about. You highlight the bus stop, so yes there are still double decker buses bearing down, as well as lots of vans and local access traffic. Not a good idea to step into the road...

Paul Green ● 2273d

They expect you to move away then Paul, if you don't do as told you must leave.

Janice Evans ● 2273d

Geez I would rather wrestle with an E Europeon lorry driver than a phalanx of  Bradley Botherers with  now we have e scooter entitlers to contend with #insuretaxidentification

Mick Collins ● 2273d

Exactly right, Paul.  Especially after hearing what happened to Simon Cowell.  Within a cm of being paralysed after falling off his electric bike, broke his back in three places, now recuperating from six hour surgery.  Having fractured a vertebra myself, that is going to be a long road to recovery for him.

Claire Moran ● 2273d

Paul  I just don't think that you can possibly have come in or out of Turnham Green Station during the rush hours. It isn't likely to be quite the same now obviously.  We need different ways to travel and I'm surprised that you don't see your own closed mindset.  I used to regularly see a gentleman on a mobility scooter at the Roebuck. He hadn't allowed his lack of mobility to stop him.

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

There are different forms of mobility problems you cannot put all in a box.

Janice Evans ● 2273d

I'm not against cycling and have done in a cycle park but don't think I'm safe enough to be on any roads, unfortunately some don't realise they should not be on the road.

Janice Evans ● 2273d

Yes, indeed. If your balance isn't very good on a bike, an e-bike doesn't help much.

Robert Fish ● 2273d

Philippa. We had this discussion before. I have used TG tube for nearly 25 years, so fully aware of peak time. But if it gets busy as before its because its generally safe to do so, so crowding is irrelevant. In any case, the current 'closure' of TGT does not make it safe to spill out into the road, so I really struggle to get your point. I don't need a mobility scooter or want one. Why is that this vocal minority are so desperate to tell the rest of us how to live. I have a car that I use sparingly, happy to use public transport and Ubers when practical. But buses and taxis equally badly impacted by these crazy new closures.

Paul Green ● 2273d

There are people with mobility problems because of blood conditions, breathing conditions, they are not necessarily registered disabled and this is what they fail to understand.

Janice Evans ● 2273d

"I don't need a mobility scooter or want one. Why is that this vocal minority are so desperate to tell the rest of us how to live."Exactly Paul and completely agree.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2273d

Just a suggestion, in Hillingdon where my sister lives they have parking bays for the elderly as well as disabled parking, that could well overcome the problem for a lot of people, they do have to pay but the spaces are there for them.

Janice Evans ● 2273d

But don't you see that I object to being told that it is safe when people are piling down the stairs at Turnham Green tube out onto the street and people are also coming in the opposite direction.  The option is what?  Stand still and see if they walk into me - quite possible since so many walk along looking at their mobiles - or step onto the road.  We all have to make adjustments and we all have to compromise.

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

I have often written that the Blue Badge is not good enough as the only concession for those less able because it is so hard to get one when you need it and very often you just need that sort of aid for only a short amount of time.There are apparently a lot of people who abuse the use of them - but then there are also a lot of people who think that people abuse them because they do not appreciate that you do not have to be visibly disabled to have a Blue Badge or that the Blue Badge holder can be the passenger not the driver. Rules vary from Borough to Borough.We still have far too many stations and buildings that are not accessible.  We also need drop off points for pedestrians at stations.  Turnham Green fails here with the obvious drop off points being unavailable and Turnham Green is not the only one.We need more suggestions and we need change.

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

Forgive me, Philippa, but you have a tendency to tell others what they should be doing (e.g. suggesting Paul consider an electric bike). It can grate.

Robert Fish ● 2273d

https://www.bikeworks.org.uk/what-is-ride-side-by-sidehttps://www.disabilitybikes.co.uk/trikes-for-adultsMy uncle had a mobility scooter that would have looked at home in Easy Rider.There are just so many options and you do not have to be disabled in any way.  People in many countries ride all sorts of different cycles.  They ride them in all weathers when the British are indoors because there is an inch of snow and there are leaves on the line!

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

Its great I visualise you Philippa dancing round a maypole in a beautiful may afternoon dressed like Mary Poppins ..and that is a good thing.

Mick Collins ● 2273d

"We still have far too many stations and buildings that are not accessible.  We also need drop off points for pedestrians at stations.  Turnham Green fails here with the obvious drop off points being unavailable.."Not much point dropping off less able passengers at TG station when the only way up to the platforms is a long flight of stairs. There was a thread on CW4 some while ago discussing just how difficult it would be to install lifts to both island platforms at TG.

Richard Greenhough ● 2273d

I'm sorry Robert but he told me not to step out into the road and that it was never crowded at Turnham Green tube.  That is NOT true.  Paul has repeatedly said he used to cycle but now can't but at no time said he had tried other options on the market - so I dared to do that very un-British thing of ASKING.  We all have to make adjustments as we go along and we need to keep on looking for better ones all the time.  Pavements are damaged by the cars, vans and lorries that are now driving over them.  Broken paving stones and loose kerbstones can be lethal.  We can't all drive everywhere all the time.  We need to be more flexible. At least one in three people over the age of 65 is likely to suffer from a fall.  We can't live our lives in aspic.

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

"We also need drop off points for pedestrians at stations.  Turnham Green fails here with the obvious drop off points being unavailable"Not true.  If you wish to drop off a passenger at Turnham Green station, you can still do so under the "except for access" exemption.

Richard Jennings ● 2273d

Ha Ha Mick I tried that as a kid at school and it is quite complicated! Preferred pond dipping looking for creepy crawlies.

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

Haha but I shall stick to how I see you in my minds eye Philippa :)

Mick Collins ● 2273d

And if they fall from a bike of whatever sort they could be seriously injured or worse. All modes of transport have theirs and cons. People should choose the one(s) that suit them  and if still legal not be attacked for doing so.

Claire Moran ● 2273d

I beg your pardon, but how can electric bikes be even allowed in England, given that BoJo's agenda is to prescribe cycling to improve health, get fit etc? It's not  cycling, it's just sitting down with a button pressed down.

Adam Pycz ● 2273d

Go and try one out Adam.  I think they are assisted.  What about those e-scooters?  They look much more dangerous - and illegal.  At least investigate the alternative options!  We need the cyclists off the pavements where they are not shared with pedestrians.There are cycling sessions here and bike marking and registering and info on cycle parking:https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20053/transport/1985/cycling_in_hounslow/2

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

Electric bikes only provide electric assistance while you are pedalling.You don't need to pedal very hard, so they don't provide a lot of exercise, but they are better than nothing.  The upside is that you can go up a hill without getting sweaty.  Even if you could just push a button and go, it's still much better than a car.  They create less air pollution, less CO2, and less congestion.

Al Webber ● 2273d

🏇🏂🚣🏊.  🚳

Janice Evans ● 2272d

I think you'll have difficulty rowing your boat down there right now.

Philippa Bond ● 2272d

Ha just me being silly.

Janice Evans ● 2272d