Forum Topic

CW 9 to be put in place with a temporary structure

https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/temporary-version-of-cycleway-9-to-be-introduced/There is no money for the real thing so Hounslow are going to put a temporary one up instead.Lovely jubbly, looks like we are in for years of plastic barriers along the High Road.What a bloody awful thought.

Adrian Irving ● 2295d34 Comments

Does that mean the High Road trees have a reprieve for now?

Claire Moran ● 2295d

AdrianThanks for the link, does this mean that LB Hounslow will be paying for the temporary version of CW9 because TfL are skint ? Mind you LB Hounslow aren't exactly financially robust themselves are they ?'IF' LBH are funding this 'temporary structur" I would have thought and hoped that LBH would be putting financial help to Chiswicks struggling independent traders - clearly a fat chance of that !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2295d

ClaireWe can only hope 🤞

Loraine Pemberton ● 2295d

Maybe Councillor Khan could find time to inform the people that pay his salary the how, when and what, in detail,this "temporary" project will proceed.Just take a look a King Street to get an inkling of what this will look like and then double it. Horrible.

Adrian Irving ● 2295d

A truly horrible picture.Whatever this temporary structure turns out to be, will Cyclists stop using the pavements ? I, and many many others, are sick and tired of dodging these dangerous and inconsiderate people on bikes. Don't have that problem with cars on pavements.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2295d

Question is: will the temporary coned-off CS9 be taken from the pavement or the road? And will they try and create a two-way route on the south side or go for a single track on each side?

Peter Evans ● 2295d

Peter, who knows, the only certainty is they will screw it up!

Adrian Irving ● 2295d

Oh that's lovely - a real caring addition to the W4 streetscape.

Bruce Hammal ● 2295d

Assuming this isn't somehow being shoved through under the "emergency" Streetspace legislation then surely CS9 has to be constructed as originally proposed? This is the equivalent of getting planning permission for a conservatory and then  shoving up a polytunnel because you've run out of cash.

Bruce Hammal ● 2295d

AdrianPerhaps the self appointed 'expert' and his sidekicks can answer that question ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2295d

That made my laugh Bruce which is surprising as I am beyond furious about this.

Adrian Irving ● 2295d

With a reduction in serious injuries along the High Road, and reduced pollution and emissions with the encouragement of more people to cycle, definitely a caring addition!It seems that while all of us would support the aims, there are some they oppose every measure that might achieve them. If you don’t believe these measures will achieve anything positive then you should be welcoming the opportunity to prove you are right. As precedent, the cycleway along the Embankment has seen pollution drop, cycling soar and the Embankment transporting a larger proportion of people across central London than before.

Tom Pike ● 2295d

Very sceptical about this - I'd be surprised if anything was done in the central commercial area of Chiswick. There is a major gasworks scheme along Chiswick High Road which will run at least until September and would make any sort of proto-cycleway 9 scheme very difficult to implement. Hounslow would have already done something on this section if it were practical. Implementing the scheme on the pavement right now is probably not going to  happen because there would need to be permanent infrastructure at the crossings which won't be funded.The 'quietway' section from Heathfield Terrace down Wellesley Road could be implemented as per the original design by painting some cycle signs on the road.What may be being referred to is the work currently being done by Kew Bridge. TfL may not have the money to finish this but they might be have some sort of temporary scheme  so that it isn't left as a building site. Tfl aren't likely to want to give road space to cycles on the South Circular to the point were it would operate as a single lane so it maybe they are proposing shared use of the pavement at this section. It would be a shame as this is the most useful bit by far of cycleway 9.

Paul Corcoran ● 2295d

Paul, you do realise that when you say something related to cycleway 9 isn’t going to happen, that pretty well guarantees that it will?I can remember your prediction saying there wouldn’t be funding for CW9 a day before the announcement saying there was.I can’t remember if it was you or someone else confidently predicted there wouldn’t be temporary cycle lanes because that would reduce space for cars. TfL then started installing them the following week.I had thought there was going to be an announcement last week but it looks like it has been delayed. Keep a look out for it. Maybe you will be surprised?.This is TfL funded and using their resources. Hounslow don’t have the resources given all the other projects going on at the moment.Andrews Gilligan, one of the “fathers”:of cycleway 9 has just been appointed as a special advisor to the TfL board putting together the budget following the current TfL bailout. That should be good for future funding too.

Michael Robinson ● 2295d

I was going to suggest a temporary trial in the first place. Good idea

Stephen Gould ● 2295d

Excellent idea. Bring it on.

Edward Seaton ● 2295d

Michael, you seem to have a better recollection of things I post on this forum than I do myself. I'm quite happy to accept that your predictions are alway likely to be better than mine as the people making these decisions seem to tell you before the rest of us. Some appear to be more equal than others with Hounslow Council.Can you explain to me why it would be wrong to think it will be impractical to create space for cyclists on Chiswick High Road while the gasworks are going on? Can you explain how implementing the cycleway on the pavement would be possible within the restrictions for funding which would mean that putting in new crossings and the enhancements that would be needed at junctions to make sure cyclists were safe from emerging traffic wouldn't be eligible for funding?

Paul Corcoran ● 2295d

"Excellent idea"Spot on, an idea but is there an excellent thought through plan?Hummmm.

Adrian Irving ● 2295d

Paul, the original announcement about a temporary cycleway 9 was on 6 May.  You shouldn’t be surprised if they announce they are doing something and then do it. It has taken a few months for more news but clearly there are limited resources and a lot of projects at the moment.It isn’t rocket science to get information. You can ring up people and speak to them and sometimes they may answer your questions. That’s what the Chiswick Calendar journalist did for the story linked in the first post.  She did the same for the news about Ealing plans for Fishers Lane last week.I haven’t seen any plans or the project phasing. I don’t know how it will be implemented, if it is barriers, wands, rediweld kerbing like Park Lane or if there will be temporary signals. I doubt there will be construction involving digging up pavements so I’d expect the cycle lane will only be on the roadway. It may just take up more roadway than the original plan or maybe the lanes themselves will be a bit narrower than the original plans. We’ll see what happens. Like the lanes in H&F, there will almost certainly need to be adjustments.

Michael Robinson ● 2295d

Perhaps when there's somewhere safe to cycle? And the majority of cars abide by the 20mph limit?

John Hall ● 2295d

Adrian the thought- through plan is called. ‘ Statutory guidanceReallocating road space in response to COVID-19: statutory guidance for local authoritiesGuidance for local authorities on managing their road networks in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.’Published by the Government on 9th May. First measure detailed was‘ Installing ‘pop-up’ cycle facilities with a minimum level of physical separation from volume traffic; for example, mandatory cycle lanes, using light segregation features such as flexible plastic wands; or quickly converting traffic lanes into temporary cycle lanes (suspending parking bays where necessary); widening existing cycle lanes to enable cyclists to maintain distancing. Facilities should be segregated as far as possible, i.e. with physical measures separating cyclists and other traffic. Lanes indicated by road markings only are very unlikely to be sufficient to deliver the level of change needed, especially in the longer term.’

Edward Seaton ● 2295d

Thank's Edward.Let's see how these fine words work out in practical shall we.

Adrian Irving ● 2295d

And more pavement use for pedestrians was part of it.  So I don't see how they can take some of the pavement for a cycle way.

Claire Moran ● 2295d

Not sure which one is better for health: plastic or concrete.Anyway, much cheaper to install the temporary barriers, allowing to prove in practice that CS9 is a terrible idea, and silently retract it as if nothing happened. Hope the experiment won't be physically harmful to pedestrians and other High Road users.

Adam Pycz ● 2295d

I've noticed you are always very glass half empty Paul. There ways seems to be a prediction of doom and gloom about everything.

Tony Smart ● 2295d

And you Tony tend to be TfL's Comical Ali always telling us everything is just fine.The reality here as you well know is there have been significant reductions in spending on road transport and budgets have been slashed including for sustainable transport measures. How much remains in the kitty for Cycleway 9 we don't know because we are not being told.These temporary measures have indeed been talked about for a long time but I'd really like someone to explain what could actually be done on Chiswick High Road with most of this section of the route either now taken up with bus lanes with extended hours or the gas works.My concern would be that all that we are going to see is a sticking plaster solution that allows TfL to finish work at Kew Bridge without properly implementing the cycle way between Wellesley Road and Brentford High Street which they will try and present as a win.If you want to confound doom merchants like me why not tell us what you believe is actually being planned?

Paul Corcoran ● 2295d

Of course previous bike lanes have delivered on getting more people cycling, and reducing pollution and emissions. Maybe CW9 will be different, though nobody has yet suggested quite why.

Tom Pike ● 2295d

Edward there is a large difference between "guidance" and a plan, a plan that will work in practice.You have confused the two. It's a worry.

Adrian Irving ● 2295d

"There is no money for the real thing so Hounslow are going to put a temporary one up instead"This made me laugh.This was the obvious conclusion to the problems at hand. I'd say about two years ago now some of us proposed that very thing as a means of addressing the need given the financial state of TfL. I can't wait to see all the local cycling campaigners jump on this as a positive given they so steadfastly maintained it as anti, anti, anti.

David Lesniak ● 2294d

"As precedent, the cycleway along the Embankment"No, Tom. The precendent is in Hammersmith. Surely someone as intelligent as you, a doctor, can see that. King Street is literally the extension of CHR. And the temporary measures are most likely identical to what we will see in Chiswick. Not the bells and whistles version of the Embankment model. Take a look at the King Street model at any given time of day. Cyclists still cram on to the roadway oblivious to the temporary lanes with the red and white barriers and big yellow signs. People walk in the cycle lane. People climb over the barricades to cross the street.Imperfect, yes. But plenty to be learned and applied including but not limited to restricting cyclists to the very real estate they begged for.

David Lesniak ● 2294d

But in the meantime Pedestrians on pavements play Dodgems with cyclists who should also stick to 20 mph !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2294d

CS9 once built will look more like Embankment than what we now have on Kings St. However, you are correct a temporary bike lane has drawbacks in comparison. The signage on Kings St was very poor, and cars pushing in the barriers at times has blocked it all together. But what you are already seeing is an increase in people on bikes and that delivers an immediate drop in pollution and emissions. So happy to accept your point that temporary bike lanes are often far from ideal, but they still can offer significant benefits.

Tom Pike ● 2294d

aren't you kidding yourself Pollution will drop? Theres that thing called the M4/A4 that isn't going anywhere.  A real environment friendly and happy motorist policy would be to get tunneling underground and build a vesicle tunnel from Hammermsmith to M4 flyover.  And with some of the recovered above ground A4/M4, there can be a cycleway of super delights

Mike Chisholm ● 2294d

Personally I'm baffled the King Street barricades aren't filled with water to keep them in place. It doesn't take much to move them which clearly is being done all the time.Yesterday I noticed the section near TK Maxx appeared to have been deliberately reduced by whomever set up the barriers. Usually you can tell if it was someone else moving them about but this looked far more intentional. A bit daft to have wider sections on either side and then a pinch point of their own making. As I walked past, one cyclist headed west was barely pedalling along by choice, not necessity. Another cyclist heading east had to stop, pull his bike to the pavement, wait for numb nut to pass and then he got back down on the cycle lane. Sorry, but it made me laugh that one cyclist was oblivious to another. The east-bound guy also laughed as it was just so utterly clueless.

David Lesniak ● 2293d