Forum Topic

Black Lives Matter peaceful socially distanced protest.

We are continuing to show solidarity with protesters and demand justice globally.Please see this information for a local peaceful protest and contact Anil if you have further queries. https://www.facebook.com/events/2621010638120523/?active_tab=aboutDate: Sunday at 1:30 PM13–22°C Rain ShowersLocation: Christ Church Turnham GreenHosted by Anil PatelA Peaceful Protest along the wide pavements next to the Turnham Green Church, on the highstreet with Social Distancing. If it gets too crowded we will move to the space on the green.This is a Family and Community friendly peace protest. There will be music and positive vibes to promote healing and education. Aims:- Kneel for George Floyd and the countless before him.- Chant the UK Names of preventable lives lost- Raise awareness with drivers and passers by encouraging honking of horns.Please Remember:- Remain peaceful- IF YOU HAVE SYMPTOMS PLEASE DO NOT ATTEND- Bring protective masks and gloves, and if possible wet-wipes or anti-bacterial gel- Observe two-metre social distancing guidelines- Pack food and water- Bring identification and emergency contact information- Wear comfortable shoes- Bring Waterproofs- In case of arrest, carry essential medicines (e.g. inhalers) on your person- Women on periods are advised to wear pads instead of tampons in case toilet access is restricted by events or arrest.

Anil Patel ● 2335d269 Comments

“In case of arrest...”Yeah, that sounds very peaceful for a family with children to attend!

Georgina Flint ● 2335d

Kneeling for a criminal that is at odds with all those in society that play by the rules. Totally accept the police behaviour was wrong and they have been arrested. To ask people to kneel for a person who held a gun in the stomach of a pregnant women, no thank you. The drug element of his behaviour is a different piece but a gun in the stomach of a pregnant women, unforgivable.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

I agree Jayne.

Georgina Flint ● 2335d

Georgina, I am shocked that the media have not put the full story about George Floyd, he was NOT an upstanding citizen, as a I said drugs is one thing but a gun in a pregnant women’s stomach and people want to kneel unbelievable!

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

Thanks for the invite Anil but I won’t be attending.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Having re-read your invite Anil, I think your advice regarding bringing inhalers in case of arrest is clumsy and provocative at best. Most people who use inhalers would carry their medication regardless of your seemingly”caring”advice. And I’m sure women don’t need any advice from you regarding their personal hygiene measures. You seem to be a bit of a sham to me.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

great to see, i'll be there.

Jonathan Oppe ● 2335d

Sounds like another 'peaceful protestor' spoiling for a fight.

Colin Jordan ● 2335d

😂😂😂😂😂

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

😂😂😂😂😂

Jonathan Oppe ● 2335d

Yes, Richard. The personal hygiene advice was more than creepy. I don’t think women need a stranger’s advice on that subject. Ewww!!

Georgina Flint ● 2335d

Why and how does it help to hold a gathering warning of likely police arrests and kneeling to honour a drug dealer,  make society in Chiswick or anywhere else better for black people?  Is their aim to offer an easier life for drug runners and gangs?  I will NOT attend such a meeting.  I too was horrified to learn of this drug dealing thug - he's been portrayed as holier than thou by all the media - quite disgraceful.  This is taking political correctness too far - we want truth & honesty from these journalists who are so cowed and frightened.  The USA policemen who murdered him deserved to be charged but maybe they too were terrified of  what might happen should he have escaped, panicked & applied excess force with terrible results.

Jennifer Selig ● 2335d

A reminder for the deranged attending this protest PLEASE TAKE ALL YOUR RUBBISH HOME WITH YOU.  The peaceful, law abiding Council workers can do without the extra clearing up.

Jennifer Selig ● 2335d

Jesus. He was in police custody and you are suggesting the only way to stop him escaping was to kill him! And people question why these protests are necessary....

Jonathan Oppe ● 2335d

Jonathan. Let’s get this clear. No poster has even suggested that the treatment of this criminal was right or justified in any way. No one deserves such treatment. You seem to be ignoring what people are saying on this forum at the same time as trying to ram home your point. Clear?

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Sounds like you've got this well planned out, Anil. Sounds like there's a national organisation behind all this? Have you warned the police to expect to take the knee, and have the shit kicked out of them?  Will the statue of Hogarth outside Barclays Bank be safe? Couldn't you stage your outpouring of love and disease on the Goodwin  Sands, beginning at low tide?

Roger Talbot ● 2335d

Roger, don’t deny Anil his fifteen minutes of fame. He’s looking forward to it!  Anil, having issued your very personal invite with such caring advice on medicinal needs and personal hygiene to the family picnic, you seem to have gone very quiet.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Richard. Thanks for being so clear and glad to see we agree on this. See you at the protest(from 2m of course)?

Jonathan Oppe ● 2335d

Thanks Jonathan. I won’t be there but I respect the cause. I just don’t think that folk have really considered the best approach. Tearing down statues etc just isn’t going to work. Many years ago, I used to attend Rock Against Racism concerts. Quite a few big name bands from across the ethnic and political spectrum. Mainly peaceful. Except for the NF thugs. I fear a right wing backlash in all this, then we really will have civil unrest which will polarise opinions and will achieve nothing.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Cool, i've watched videos of the clash at RAR at it looks awesome so must have been amazing to be there. Its a shame things haven't moved on since then really. I can assure you i have no plans to tear down any statues, as far as i am aware Hogarth wasn't a slave owner so i think you are okay there.

Jonathan Oppe ● 2335d

If you have to have this protest do it on te Green not on the pavement.  Then you won't be in people's way

David Halliday ● 2335d

Anil I do hope that you appreciate this is a peaceful area and we want to keep it that way. The comments on the invite suggest otherwise, if there is any violence I hope you take responsibility for it.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

I think things have moved on massively since then. Not enough though, so work in progress. But the strategy needs to be thought through, and in my opinion blindly hanging onto the shirttails of a criminal who contributed nothing to society is mindless. Too many people seem to latch on to the latest cause without really thinking through the whole issues. Just my opinion though.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Anil?

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Elvis Costello and Assad were pretty good too if I recall. Long time ago though!

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Anil has every right to launch his peaceful protest and he has made it very clear that this is what it should be. Your comment, and the "deranged" comment from Ms Selig are just shameful.

Carl Wynne ● 2335d

Which of my comments do you consider “shameful” Carl?

Richard Kay ● 2335d

And why?

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Good luck with the protest Anil and Jonathan. As this forum shows there is a long way still to go.

Paul Campbell ● 2335d

Paul what do you mean, please explain? are you advocating violence in our area?

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

Anil, you say this gathering is community based. Just answer one question for me. Are you part of the Chiswick community?

Richard Kay ● 2335d

You bloat yourself by thinking I would reply to your comment.

Carl Wynne ● 2335d

Keep blowing the dog whistle

Paul Campbell ● 2335d

Then man up and justify your comment Carl. To whom were you referring? Surely they have a right to respond.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Why? Can't you read?

Carl Wynne ● 2335d

Almost exactly sixty years ago I sat English Literature O-level. The set Shakespeare play was "The Merchant of Venice". I still remember these lines: "I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, affections, senses, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that." For "Jew", substitute "black drug dealer", and think. George Floyd is a black jederman. In seeking to dehumanise him, we deliberately turn a blind eye to the racial prejudice which still runs through our society, and is particularly evident in the differential treatment of blacks by police, not just in the US but also here. At least here the police kill fewer blacks than in the US, but our record is nothing to be proud of.

Robert Fish ● 2335d

Yes I can read Carl. You have accused some posters on this thread of being “shameful” . Who, and why. Simple question.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Simple answer. If you can indeed read and can follow a thread, you can possibly work it out.

Carl Wynne ● 2335d

C’monCarl, I can read but I can’t read your mind! Man up and answer the question, otherwise we’ll just have to assume you’re just full of hot air.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Jayne, you are obsessed with there being violence at this thing, its almost as if you are planning something...There was a similar event at Kew Green last weekend that went off without any violent incidents, couple 100 people there and the whole thing was very powerful and moving, with people brought to tears as we all took the knee for 9 minutes.

Jonathan Oppe ● 2335d

Whilst I totally agree Black Lives Matter. I cannot attend any of the current protests triggered by the death of a man who was far from an upstanding citizen. I am disgusted by the way he died. No human should be treated that way. I am equally disgusted by the fact that black people are subject to unfair treatment eg job selection, stop and search, name calling. None of this is right. However using this situation, with man who had committed many awful crimes, as a Martyr, is wrong. We are all feeling fragile at the moment. Looking to blame everyone except ourselves.  We all want to make the world a better place. Problems are always caused by a minority who sully situations for everyone else. Eg those who feel no need to isolate and act sensibly in light of covid and put themselves and others at risk. Equally, within any community of any race, creed, or colour there are bad people who tarnish these communities. If  people want change, it starts at home. Stop preaching, take a look at yourselves, take a look at those in your own communities who make it so difficult for outsiders to perceive you in a good way and treat you fairly. One of the reasons I love living in a London is the diversity of its people.  We have black people, white people,  other ethnic minorities, we have all religions, we have gay people, rich people and poor people. I have close friends from all these sectors of society, and they are my friends because we share the same values and respect for others and the world we live in. If you ask me to stand up and protest about the manner of George Floyd’s death I will be there. I will not march for change associated with a man like Floyd. If took a good man with good values to end apartheid in South Africa. It took a good man to fight for civil rights in America. I and the rest of the world will listen to men like this and march for change.

Sean Wales ● 2335d

Sean, I couldn’t have put it better myself, thank you 👏👏👏👏👏 large gathering area illegal so another reason not to attend any protest currently

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

Anil? It’s your community based party. Care to respond to any of the above?

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Have to agree with you there, Sean

Vivienne Cox ● 2335d

Well said Sean.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

Sean 👍👍

Jon morris ● 2335d

It is the racists rather than the anti-racists that are the problem. BLM are having to call off their central London protest for fear of violence from far-right and other hate groups according to the Guardian. 'There are fears among anti-racist campaigners that marauding gangs will seek out BLM protesters' https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/11/blm-organisers-call-off-london-event-to-prevent-clashes-with-far-right

Sara Collins ● 2335d

I agree about the far right scum Sara, as I pointed out earlier in this thread. They will leap like jackals, which is why the cause needs to consider how they proceed. Not very well put on my side because I’m tired, but I trust you get what I mean. Polarised views always attract another extreme view, which never bodes well.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

They are not 'polarised views'. BLM want to live in a world free of anti-Blackness where there is justice and equality. This should be regarded as normal not the opposite of what far right groups aspire to achieve.

Sara Collins ● 2335d

Maybe next time the black people can put a note in their calendar to remind them to invite the white people to march against racism when somebody who meets with their approval is murdered by the police.

Paul Campbell ● 2335d

I totally agree with you. I was referring to the far right thugs.

Richard Kay ● 2335d

What’s with all this ‘man up’?  You really have an odd way of expressing yourself sometimes.

Stewart Jones ● 2335d

A nice little afterthought as it’s against the rules. But I think many people will understand what motivated your initial response.

Stewart Jones ● 2335d

Forget everything else for a moment my huge concern about mass gatherings of any description or for whatever cause anywhere in the world is the danger of a SECOND SPIKE.Stock markets around the world took a real beating yesterday for fear of one.THAT MATTERS, if we sleepwalking into virus take two the world wide consequences will be bad, very very bad for you,your family, and the entire population what ever your age, background, gender, skin colour or politics.For that reason I cannot support any mass gatherings. In the real world  strict social distancing is just not realistic.There has to be a better way.

Adrian Irving ● 2335d

"There has to be a better way"...There is.  When football restarts fanatic fans will gather,  whatever and wherever.  Liverpool fans will particularly gather en masse when they win the League.  I'm today ordering  military helicopters to drop heavy netting over these fans.  Who will then ALL be arrested and transported to secure camps in remote places where they will be quarantined for a fortnight...carry on...

Stuart Kerr ● 2335d

That should have happened years ago Stuart!

Adrian Irving ● 2335d

I agree that his crimes were horrible but he did serve time. Do you believe that people can be rehabilitated? The protests are about how he was treated by the police and how that’s symptomatic of a wider problem. You have as much right not to attend the protest as other do to attend.

James Carter ● 2335d

Deranged? Seriously?

Stewart Jones ● 2335d

Spain and Iran seeing a spike now. We need to be super careful.

Krysia Gdaniec ● 2335d

Sean Wales - what an excellent piece and I fully agree with everything you say.

Jennifer Selig ● 2335d

Who is this idiot Anil Patel? He's gone strangely quiet.

Brian Coyle ● 2335d

CW4 rule #1 - don't start a new thread with a contentious post and then fail to reply to responses, unless you want to pick up a raft of insults.

Richard Greenhough ● 2335d

You all seem to be missing the point, what happened to George Floyd has acted as a catalyst to say enough is enough. It was the straw that broke the camels back. White privilege is real and very much present around the world.if you yourself are not black you will never understand what it is to be so. What it is to walk in their shoes.Although the notification of this seems a bit strange, the meaning behind it I am all for. when black lives matter, all lives will matter!!!!!!

Claire Hyams ● 2335d

Very true, Richard.

Robert Fish ● 2335d

Then surely the slogan ought to be:  'All Lives Matter - Equally'.  This would not give anyone an excuse for not supporting the issue.

J. F. Bingham ● 2335d

The R rate is creeping up please no mass gatherings for any cause right now do it when it is safe to do so at some point in the future.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

The second wave is fast approaching. Stay home, stay safe! Don't spread the virus.

Steve Taylor ● 2335d

I can only think that people have no concept of what a serious  second wave could mean.A world wide financial tsunami may not be overstating the consequences.

Adrian Irving ● 2335d

It is a real possibility yet no one seems to get it, let’s not forget those unfortunate people who will catch and die from this virus. The government can not afford to keep supporting people and business from tax payers we need to get a grip of the virus nothing else matters, no mass gathering please, do your bit to save lives and do not attend any protest or mass gatherings of any description,

Jayne Thorburn ● 2335d

So it’s official BLM have cancelled all protests in central London, the government has stated do not attend any protests this weekend. Anil I assume you are a law abiding citizen please retract the protest invite for Turnham Green this weekend, thank you.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2334d

I have just been talking to my family in Italy.Face masks compulsory.Shops open but your temperature taken before you can enter.The government stressing the real danger of a SECOND wave and to stay vigilant.An example we should follow.

Adrian Irving ● 2334d

Yes, Adrian, even in poor, benighted Brazil, with it's mad and bad president, who trumps Trump for malicious insanity, face masks have been compulsory in many states/cities, and they have digital infra-red thermometers deployed at the entrance to supermarkets. Why the UK didn't adopt these simple remedies ages ago beats me. Perhaps the reluctance to require masks was down to fears it might further deplete the already inadequate availability for the NHS.

Robert Fish ● 2334d

RF > "Perhaps the reluctance to require masks was down to fears it might further deplete the already inadequate availability for the NHS."I think that was a concern. However, it should have been possible to mandate the wearing of non-medical face coverings in enclosed spaces, and actively discourage the use of the type of medical masks needed in health and social care settings.I suspect there may be some sort of cultural resistance to face coverings. I have been doing a weekly shop in Sainsbury's since early March. The usage of face coverings steadily increased, plateaued, and is now decreasing. Today I was in a quite small minority, maybe 10-20%, of people wearing masks.

John Whitworth ● 2334d

I think he has something against Chiswick, Jayne. He hasn't invited the people who follow the forums of Acton, Brentford, Ealing, Hammersmith and the Bush along to this smashing day out.

Roger Talbot ● 2334d

Why can’t he do it in Isleworth, where Robert says he lives,  if he feels it absolutely necessary to potentially  put lives at risk through a mass gathering.

Richard Kay ● 2334d

This seems to have triggered a lot of people. It's almost as if they think that Chiswick isn't in London.

Carl Wynne ● 2334d

Carl, we are in London but not considered central London which is where BLM have cancelled events. I could be wrong but as Anil seems to be a mystery no one knows if BLM have cancelled all events in London. To be clear I am not against a peaceful protest in normal times but these times are NOT normal so I am passionately against any mass gathering because I value my own life and that of others.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2334d

I thought this was a wind up at first.

Janice Evans ● 2334d

Please please please do not attend mass gatherings protests going to the beach etc for all of us who are going through chemotherapy and any other serious health conditions you are putting all our lives at risk .

Mrs Renate Stroud ● 2334d

Renata, thank you for your very personal plea. And I wish you well with your treatment and it’s success. I trust that consciences will be dug deep, and that some will have the courage to change their minds about attending this and any other mass events this weekend. And when health restrictions are eased, I wish all those wishing to protest in a peaceful way all every success with this cause.

Richard Kay ● 2334d

Thank you Richard very well said for all of us who have been shielding for the last 12 weeks

Mrs Renate Stroud ● 2334d

J.F Bingham, bit of a tone deaf response don't you think?Protests and the character of George Floyd aside, saying 'All lives matter' is like running up to a fireman fighting a house fire and telling them all houses matter. Yes, that's true, but this one is on fire and rightly deserves the attention.

Nick Hunt ● 2334d

J.F Bingham, bit of a tone deaf response don't you think?Protests and the character of George Floyd aside, saying 'All lives matter' is like running up to a fireman fighting a house fire and telling them all houses matter. Yes, that's true, but this one is on fire and rightly deserves the attention.

Nick Hunt ● 2334d

Yet, you are hugely in favour of lifting the lockdown which you admit will kill people. You seem to want it both ways. You are happy to risk the lives of some people and not others. If this were a 'dance the conga to big up Johnson and Brexit on Turnham Green' you'd be there handing out the lollipops.

Stewart Jones ● 2334d

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to this. Update for all interested parties at the bottom. You can skip the bit addressed to Ignorant people. Reading a lot of the Ignorant messages and character assassinations made me laugh and just affirms the need for awareness of Systemic Racism. If you would like to stop dehumanizing me with your hate you are more than welcome to get to know me. 07935677964. As for the time you spent hating i find a terrible waste of your own time. You could have done so many productful and positive things for yourself, including understanding your own biases and learning about Black and BAME History in this United Kingdom. Tomorrow is going ahead with strict social distancing and positivity for change. Change for the betterment of Humanity. I extend the hand of friendship to all those who are seemingly looking for an intellectual fight where none exists. BLACK LIVES MATTER deal with it.  What really made me laugh is that someone took time out and researched me but failed to research the actual BLM movement.Update for tomorrow- Rough Guide for tomorrow-1.30pm gather by church and move to the wide pavements on the highstreet.2pm Kneel for George and all the lives lost and being lost2.15pm Minute silence for Grenfell VictimsInbetween Music and Chants feel free to dance and express your grief in creative way. That is why soul music was created.Stay as long as you like please bring bags with you to put rubbish in and take home, if you stay till the end please help littlerpick the ground if there is any rubbish.Chants for Sunday:No Jusctice. No Peace. No Racist Police.What do we want?System Wide Change!Educate your childrenEducate yourselves.Who are we?We are One.Power to the People.People Have the Power.Do you know your place?Our Place is TogetherNames:Stephen LawrenceSarah Reed.Mark Duggan.Joy Gardner.George Floyd.Breonna Taylor.Please share and learn more about their cases. Feel free to add your chants and names

Anil Patel ● 2333d

Good luck with it. I suspect you are safe from your critics on this thread as none of them have demonstrated any dangerous behavioural tendencies in the past. Make sure social distancing DOES TAKE PLACE and avoid provocation if any scum try it on.

John Connelly ● 2333d

Anil: thanks for your response. It’s also a Grenfell anniversary which makes this more poignant.Comments here about George Floyd’s form ignore that of Chauvin: they knew each other through working at the same nightclub. Chauvin was known to have a “short fuse”. shorthand for violent, I’m guessing. So he was not perfect either. Murder in the gutter is never, ever justifiable. I’m disappointed by most of the comments here.Our illustrious leader told us earlier that we are not a racist country. Yesterday he was condemning racist thugs. Wrong on the first count and damn right on the second. Seemingly unaware of any contradiction. Oh well: that’s an expensive education for you.We really need to be much more honest and realistic about this. Did none of you watch “Sitting in Limbo” on BBC? If not - try.

Beryl Wall ● 2333d

Please answer my question.

Georgina Flint ● 2333d

"in case of arrest, carry essential medicines (e.g. inhalers) on your person- Women on periods are advised to wear pads instead of tampons in case toilet access is restricted by events or arrest." Anil, do you not think that the closing two paragraphs of your first post concerning possible arrests went a tiny weeny itsy wincy way to encouraging some of the responses.The way I see it you rolled in the "hand grenade" with the strong mention of arrest which people naturally conflated in their minds to violence and now you're pulling the pin by trying to conflate it into hate for BLM.I haven't re-read all the posts but all I recall is fear of violence and spread of a deadly virus. Maybe I missed the hate ones that made you "laugh". Odd sense of humour Anil.

Adrian Irving ● 2333d

Anil, you have not responded to concerns about possible spread of the virus, and I guess you won’t because you probably don’t have a convincing response. I saw no “hate” in the responses to your initial posting. But I somehow expected the tone and content of your response.For those who have made the decision to attend, I can say no more except please, please respect others when it comes to social distancing. You are knowingly breaking lockdown rules, it’s your decision and your conscience, and I trust you will all self isolate for the next 14 days.

Richard Kay ● 2333d

....and just to add the advise is 3m if you are singing/shouting/chanting.

Adrian Irving ● 2333d

Can this country afford the cost of policing these protest.  Don’t we need every penny to fight the virus.  Now is not the time IMO.

Maggie Dodge ● 2333d

Maggie, a peaceful protest doesn’t need any more than community policing.These sorts of small protests have been happening across the country over the last few weeks and have been peaceful, I have no reason to believe this will be any different.

James Carter ● 2333d

Any views on potential spread of the virus James.

Richard Kay ● 2333d

As Anil said, if you’re able to attend and maintain social distance then why not show your solidarity for the cause. I was on the Green yesterday with my family and I plan to be there again today if it’s possible to maintain distance from other people.

James Carter ● 2333d

James very sensible, a park is open green space so possible to maintain a safe distance from other family groups. Turnham Green Terrace and The High Road is totally inappropriate as many people would like to do their shopping to support local stores, Anil we live in an inclusive society, there is a deadly virus around please move to the green spaces.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2333d

Thanks Jayne, I would point out though that Christ Church on the Green is where Anil suggested in his original post. Close enough to the High Road so that people are aware of the protest without getting in the way of the people and traders trying to go about their business.

James Carter ● 2333d

Apologies for disagreeing, but social distancing on Turnham Green isn't as easy as you make out, especially with lots of children playing and running about.I've just got back from a walk on the first section of TG and there are currently approximately 60+ people there, if that number is doubled then social distancing will become very hard and an unnecessary risk in not spreading Coronavirus. No one wants a 2nd wave and any kind of mass meeting should be avoided, dare I say banned, however worthy the cause.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2333d

Haven't read every post, but looks like Anil Patel has done a runner.

Brian Coyle ● 2333d

After the violence yesterday and given we are in the middle of a pandemic I would Ban all mass gathering regardless of cause it is just too dangerous and lives are at stake, not to mention the people who have to shield we need to get rid of the virus before any mass gatherings are allowed.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2333d

Brian, not according to his post of yesterday at 23.23pm

Loraine Pemberton ● 2333d

See Anils post at 2313 last night. A mindless diatribe which evades answering anyone’s concerns and which does this cause no good whatsoever.

Richard Kay ● 2333d

I wonder how many people will turn up on Turnham Green ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2333d

What a load of garbage.

Brian Coyle ● 2333d

Really? We have been so disziplined - I have seen from our window social distancing was out of the window.

Katja Urban ● 2333d

Mass gatherings already are banned. Any reports from this event?

Peter Evans ● 2333d

"I have seen from our window social distancing was out of the window."Any arrests or are the Police turning a blind eye to the law breakers?

Steve Taylor ● 2333d

CHATR,hounslow cycling club and friends of turnham green turned up and it got a little heated,that was until james turned up and it all kicked off. 2-0 at HT

Julian Pavey ● 2333d

I was passing around 3pm. About a dozen people with banners and shouting on the pavement.Passed again a little later and they had dispersed.The queue outside the ice cream parlour was knocking on twenty.

Adrian Irving ● 2333d

I think we should all raise a clenched fist to the skies for Amit Patel who has shown himself to be a true hero for the BLM cause, and demonstrated such leadership.I’m so glad that I went along to show my full support and solidarity. I am taking responsibility for myself and, more importantly, for every white person abiding in our community. I was moved by the impressive turnout of at least 30 people, chanting “Black Lives Matter” and other well rehearsed rallying cries. I was proud to hear cars and buses honking their horns in support as they drove by, and the cyclists on the pavements, jumping red lights and tinkling their bells. These are the acts of defiance that we need in the face of police brutality. I pay tribute to the two brave police officers who valiantly tried to keep the baying crowd under control, one of whom was nodding her head along to the grooves provided by Amit’s high quality sound system. All who participated in today’s peaceful gathering should feel very proud of themselves. They have shown themselves to be virtuous and worthy residents of the Chiswick community and the ongoing cause that we must never give up on.On a final note, I would like to personally thank Amit for his helpful advice on sanitary protection. I doubled-up on my pads, and thank God I did, as I've had a particularly heavy period this month. Today's events have moved me to tears, but then again, I can always gets a bit emotional at this time of the month.

Diane Winter ● 2333d

You were late, Adrian. It started at 1.30 and most people returned home after the minute silence for Grenfell victims at 2.15. It was a well attended event and the social distancing rules were adhered to, as our local councillors who took part can confirm.

Anna Spiteri ● 2333d

Diane, I have to question your reports accuracy."Cyclists tinkling their bells"A few days ago I was labouring my way up hill in Richmond Park when I heard a cry behind me "GOOD MORNING". Seconds later a cyclist wizzed by. His cry was his substitute for a bell.Anyway when I got to the bench overlooking the area where skylarks can be seen there were none.Idlely I start to count the number of passing bicycles with bells. One in twenty is about right mostly on ones ridden by females.So I put it to you that your report is riddled with inaccurate information, there were no tinkling bells and this puts into doubt you were even there.(This is tongue in cheek BTW, just in case you were wondering)

Adrian Irving ● 2332d

I take your point Anna.No relation to the Windsor Spiteri's I suppose who I got to know well a few years back.

Adrian Irving ● 2332d

Brilliant post Diane so pleased you looked out for yourself given the time of month and stayed safe

Jayne Thorburn ● 2332d

Why would Councillor’s attend an illegal event and gathering of more than 6 people?

Steve Taylor ● 2332d

Diane, this is one of the funniest posts I’ve seen in a long time!! Looks like old Amil did everyone proud. Thanks for sharing✌️

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Thank god the bowls club didn’t turn up.would have been carnage!

Richard Kay ● 2332d

A good point. Can someone who attended the event tell me which councillors were there,  so if they are councillors for my ward I know not to vote for them again?

David Halliday ● 2332d

Diane - you must belong to "one of the people who menstruates".  Presumably a LGTBA??? (spelling?).  Do we all need to know though?  The doubled up sanitary pads were rather superfluous to BLM too.

Jennifer Selig ● 2332d

Guys, I think you may find Dianne was being ironic................

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Hang on. I'm assuming Diane Winters was being ironic. Surely?

David Halliday ● 2332d

Because they wanted to do the right thing and show support for their voters of colour? I'm sure they won't hesitate to make their reasons public in their weekly blog on this website.

Anna Spiteri ● 2332d

Stewart, it would help if your prefaced you’re posts with the person you’re referring to. Just makes things easier mate.

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Anna how can attending a gathering of over 6 people be the right thing during the middle of a pandemic , the councillor should be setting an example

Renate Stroud ● 2332d

Reckon so David.read it carefully again. But I may be wrong, in which case god help us.

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Thank you Anil for organising this afternoons protest.It was powerful, peaceful, emotional and socially distanced. To see young families and babies in pushchairs all the way up to the older generation fighting for justice for black lives and Grenfell was moving. Felt very proud to be part of that community of people. Shame about the ignorant comments on here. No justice, no peace. Black Lives Matter,Aimee

Aimee Barrett ● 2332d

OK Amie, how about defining some of the “ignorant comments” you’re referring to. And can you explain why you feel so sure about your choice to attend a mass gaetherin thereby potentially putting lives in granger through spreading the virus?

Richard Kay ● 2332d

In danger.

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Richard - you are 100% right. This is most certainly irony / sarcasm from Diane Winter, and very witty too!

Elizabeth Hamilton ● 2332d

Very witty indeed! Loved it!

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Brilliant! Unfortunately this sophisticated level of irony is lost on many people these days!

Elizabeth Hamilton ● 2332d

This was so much of a gathering as a you'd call a Sainsbury's queue a gathering. And I can assure you that social distancing rules were adhered to much more rigorously than in any other lockdown queue I've been in and masks were worn by 95% of attendees. If you don't want to take my word for it you'd best ask our Turnham Green councillors.

Anna Spiteri ● 2332d

I’d be very interested in talking to your Turnham Green Counsillors. Who are they?

Richard Kay ● 2332d

I’ve seen video of this online. Congratulations Anil. It looked well attended and disciplined in respect of social distancing with lots of local families In attendance. I am sure that the local black community will appreciate how many white people came to show their solidarity. And I am really impressed by the three local Councillors I saw in the footage as well. Well done all of you for having the courage to stand up for the cause despite all the hostility there has been to these gatherings on this local forum.

Paul Campbell ● 2332d

Paul, I’m pleased it all went well. But nobody, nobody, will reply to my point re the right to ignore all advice re the danger of such mass gatherings. I respect the right to protest, but will somebody just tell me why they have the right at this time to endanger lives though these actions?

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Maybe people don’t want to argue with you online. Why don’t you try really hard to answer the question yourself as you seem to have quite a lot of time to think about the topic? Think of it as a brain teaser. EQ will be as key as IQ.

Paul Campbell ● 2332d

So still no answer then. Goodnight.

Richard Kay ● 2332d

Actually Paul, I’d be very happy to meet with you or anyone else next week to discuss. I take your point that not everyone wants to discuss online, but I  reckon if you go online you should be prepared to discuss online. Woluld be great to meet and discuss - just send me a pm when you’re around,

Richard Kay ● 2332d

But remember to keep your distance when you meet!

Anne England ● 2332d

Of course, dear girl, of course👍

Richard Kay ● 2332d

...."stand up for the cause despite all the hostility there has been to these gatherings on this local forum."My whole career has been based on seeking points of agreement rather than division so I am pleased that we agree that the hostility (not a word I would have chosen btw,  strong feelings is how I would put it) was based on the gathering of many people in the middle of a pandemic.I am sure you didn't mean to infer that the previous posters were in any way "hostile" to the BLM movement because that was not evident. Nor was it evident in any shape or form by the overwhelming majority of good Chiswick folk.Just wanted to clear that up for you in case anyone got the wrong end of the stick.

Adrian Irving ● 2332d

Forgot to say the above is in reference to Paul's post.

Adrian Irving ● 2332d

It was still a gathering though of over 6 people which is against the rules during the pandemic the councillors should be setting an example this only leads to the larger demonstrations in central London and other cities. I Have been stuck in now for 3 months maybe I have missed the fact that the virus and lockdown s over. By the way shopping is essential protesting is not during the virus

Renate Stroud ● 2332d

I agree Adrian. And I’ve noticed that because I and others have expressed the view that mass gatherings should not take place due to the current pandemic some posters have chosen to leap in with allegations of racism, ignorance, white supremacy, laughable,, boring etc. It’s not so much the words that bother me, because  we can all dish it out at times, it’s the fact that when challenged some of these people don’t have the guts to respond and justify their comments. There have been some reasoned discussions, and I personally have come to a better understanding of some of the issues, but I’m saddened by the fact that those who have used the harshest language use  a ‘hit and run’ approach.

Richard Kay ● 2332d

I was sorry to have been unable to attend Sunday's protest but I am glad it went so well. It sounds very similar to the one we and our neighbours attended on Kew Green the previous week. Richard, you seem very anxious about 'mass gatherings' but from having attended Kew Green and seen videos of the Turnham Green protest let me assure you that social distancing was the order of the day. The size of the open area involved in ratio to the numbers attending meant that 2 metre distances were easy to maintain between groups,  and everyone did so. Probably much less infection risk than the "shopping with confidence" we have been instructed to embark on by our Prime Minister today. I do think there have been a lot of people on this thread getting their knickers in a bit of a twist and Anil has been subjected to quite a lot of rudeness by some people (not by you Richard but others)

Birna Helgadottir ● 2332d

I'm sorry Birna but I really cannot agree with you all mass gatherings should be banned until the virus is under control even though you say the one yesterday was controlled it only encourages people to attend larger events and spread the virus. As I understand we are only allowed gatherings of 6 people max. Remember a lot of people myself included haven't been able to see anyone for 3 months and I fear this may go on alot longer due to second spike from these mass gatherings .

Renate Stroud ● 2332d

Diane - many apologies, of course reading your post again it was very funny.  I got carried away with all the idiots screaming on about how wonderful this man was/is from Isleworth, not from Chiswick.  Thank goodness the thugs stayed away enabling the 100 or so people who turned up to enjoy their afternoon and incidentally pay homage to the 72 souls who died at Grenfell.  ALL lives matter!

Jennifer Selig ● 2332d

Why is Scotland allowed to have 8 people max? Does the virus perhaps lose some of its effectiveness after that tiring dash up the M1?

Brian Coyle ● 2332d

Hi Berna, thanks for your reassurances and yes, I am anxious about such gathering precisely because of the reasons Renata has so succinctly put.Having said that, it’s a lovely day and hopefully a more positive atmosphere will prevail both on this Forum and in the country as a whole..I’m off this Forum for a few days now (loud cheers from some no doubt) as I’m finding it all a bit depressing to be honest. Have a good week!

Richard Kay ● 2332d

I’m doubtful about social distancing at these gatherings.  If you see people standing together do you assume they’re from the same household? How can you know.  I think we’ve all got the message now I don’t need to see unlawful activity to heighten my awareness, so I’m not sure what the purpose of this gathering was.  I’m sure someone will offer something to enlighten me.

Maggie Dodge ● 2332d

I agree with Birna (please spell her name correctly), the comments on this thread are disgusting. You are more concerned about 'disrupting the trade' and 'mass gatherings' than what is currently going on in the world. Yes George Floyd committed crimes and was not the best citizen, BUT it is about the bigger picture to all of this! Murders and attacks on black lives are happening on a daily basis around the world. You all really need to educate yourselves on this issue rather than sitting behind a screen on the Chiswick forum website worrying about how closely people are standing together at a protest.

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

And if that isn't white privilege in itself then I am not sure what is!

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

Had a bad day Sarah? I would say the vast majority on this forum are actually on your side and fully support your cause but it seems that you have chosen to ignore that for some reason or other

Paul Fisher ● 2332d

Do you think the protest achieved anything other than the possibility of the virus spreading?

Maggie Dodge ● 2332d

Yes sorry Paul you're right, not all of the comments but a lot of them. And Yes Maggie, I do think the protests in America and the UK have and are achieving a lot. Even the mere fact that people are discussing the issue and a conversation is starting to happen is enough. However, what isn't helpful is people commenting on an issue that they aren't educated on and not willing to understand. The virus rate hasn't gone up yet and I would be more concerned about people queuing for Primark if I were you Maggie, rather than people protesting for their basic human rights.

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

Has the protest achieved anything? It’s flushed out some racists on this forum for starters.

Edward Seaton ● 2332d

Exactly!!!!

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

Sarah I meant this 100 people protest in particular.  Do you think it’s achieved something that hadn’t already been achieved.  Is it racist to not want the virus to spread ? Forget any other place or time I’m specifically talking about your group breaking the law and risking lives.  Not your own but others

Maggie Dodge ● 2332d

It's got people thinking hasn't it? It has allowed those that were unable to go into London to do it where they live in Chiswick. It would have been spread on social media to show solidarity with those doing larger protests. Why does it bother you so much? My group is not breaking the law or risking lives, they are protesting against just that Maggie. I really think you should do a little more research on this before moaning about it on the Chiswick forum.

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

"Had a bad day, Sarah?" What a ludicrous reaction to a perfectly reasonable post! 

Robert Fish ● 2332d

Not to mention showing solidarity with the people of colour in Chiswick who this is all so very real for. As a white person, we do not experience what they do, but we can try to understand and we can do that by standing alongside them and educating ourselves. It isn't just their problem.

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

I just hope those lawyers planning to get Dominic Cummings are also planning to do the same to all those who have illegally congregated in large numbers for whatever reason.  They are going to be very, very busy.  I can't see how coronavirus cases won't rise again.

Claire Moran ● 2332d

Sarah you are clearly having a bad day, I haven’t read one racist remark on this thread. The concern of most people is that mass gatherings of any description are banned currently because we don’t want to invite COVID 19 to join us! Everyone is appalled at the situation with George Floyd And the police involved have been arrested. The only way to stop racism is for every individual to treat each other equally regardless of the situation, school, work etc. You are right around the world today there are terrible atrocious happening sadly right now we must protect each other from covid, many people are vulnerable so please respect Birna she talks from the heart not racism. Stay home stay safe.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2332d

Sorry Birna I meant Renate

Jayne Thorburn ● 2332d

100 Chiswick residents showing support,  well that will change the course of history.  Try supporting your fellow man in keeping them healthy and stop trying to make a name for yourself. Oh and playing the race card is so old! For me I’m only talking about the virus. For every person who might have been infected by your group, in my local area you’re putting me and my fellow Chiswickians  at risk and have not made a dent in the effort to deal with racial inequality.  You need to get your priorities in the right order. 

Maggie Dodge ● 2332d

Maggie I totally agree, I just don’t get what why people don’t understand the dangers of covid, it’s unbelievable. People seems to make an argument to suit their behaviour mass gatherings are banned for good reason!

Jayne Thorburn ● 2332d

No Maggie, you and Jayne need to get your priorities in order. Have the cases increased? NO. I am sorry you and your fellow 'Chiswickians' feel that way, but black lives right now are at risk and this requires solidarity and action from everyone. If everyone had the mindset of yours -'100 Chiswick residents showing support, well that will change the course of history'- then no one would ever get anywhere.

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

Jayne, Maggie, Claire et al. The demonstration was also attended by the leader of the local council group Joanna Biddolph. I don’t have a problem with that. It sounds as if you do.

Edward Seaton ● 2332d

I am not against protests of any kind but we are in the middle of a pandemic . There is a very high risk that the virus can spread why do you think I been told to shield till the end of June and possibly beyond if there is no risk

Renate Stroud ● 2332d

Yes Renate, I understand that, but the majority of us do not have to shield and are allowed to frollock to Primark to get whatever we need, so I think it is reasonable for people to protest alongside one of the biggest modern day movements.

Sarah Henderson ● 2332d

I don't think you do understand otherwise you would not have attended the protest how do you know there has been no spread the goverment clearly states that there should be groups of no more than 6 people

Renate Stroud ● 2332d

Ok Renate, thank you for your concern but people have been prancing on beeches and filling up the parks and as of yet there hasn't been an increase in cases. So, I think I would rather risk my life trying to protest and save other human rights, than sit at home and complain about those protesting on the Chiswick Forum. I am sorry that you are at home shielding, but some of us aren't and want to use our time to support those in need.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

** Beaches!

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Levels don't rise the next day, Sarah.  It can take a couple of weeks or more before people begin to experience symptoms. And many will not have any symptoms so will never know they had it but can still spread it to a lot of other, more vulnerable people.  As for the shops, most have spent an enormous amount of time and money putting in perspex shields, additional cleaning, one way systems and strictly limiting the number of people allowed in their shops.  All a waste of time, according to you.  I'm sure they would be glad to know that.

Claire Moran ● 2331d

Hi Claire, I think we are all missing the point on this. People were heading to beaches and going to parks well over 2 weeks ago and we still haven't seen an increase in cases. In fact, Bournemouth beach was packed on 20th May and almost a month later we are still seeing a decrease in cases. Yes, the shops may have gone to extreme lengths to re-open, but have you seen the pictures of people pushing past and gathering outside (whilst not socially distancing) to get inside? My point is that they are not socially distancing, so why are you all more than happy for that to happen yet a protest to protect black peoples lives is such a crime and really ruffles your feathers? And if the only thing you're worried about is social distancing, then that just goes to show you haven't educated yourselves on a bigger issue here at hand that has been ongoing for years and years.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Claire, Renate, Sarah doesn’t get it perhaps she should educate herself about covid 19!

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

Yes... or maybe I just am happy to stand in solidarity with those that need it most. And I am following all of the guidelines given e.g. wearing a mask and gloves, staying socially distanced where can. I am not going to keep going back and forth on this issue. But, as a white woman, it is important to me to stand in solidarity with those that need it most. There are simple ways to be an ally to our black community without actually having to protest too... if any of you are interested: Take on the struggle as your ownStand up if you feel something is wrong, even when you feel judged or challengedTransfer the benefits of your white privilege to those who lack itAnd, acknowledge that while you, too, feel pain, the conversation right now is not about you. This is a bigger issue than covid and has been in the world for much longer. Please everyone try and educate yourselves on the issue, and that doesn't mean just going out to protest, there are so many interesting articles, books and documentaries that explain it in more detail. I would recommend by starting with 13th on Netflix. If protesting isn't for you that's fine, but please don't bash those that feel strongly about it, it isn't kind.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Hi Sarah I have never said I am against protests and do understand your cause but I also do not agree with the overcrowded beaches and parks. You say you are happy to risk your life but you are also risking the lives of other people. You may have the virus and not know it, then spread it on there is a very real risk of another spike especially if everyone let's down their guard now , just because you are healthy does not make you invincible

Renate Stroud ● 2331d

But Renate, I may have the virus and walk into Primark and transfer it to everyone there too or on a packed bus or train or whilst shopping in Tesco?... I just don't like the emphasis of this being put on protesters who are trying to stand up to something bigger than this.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Sarah I believe the shops are following strict guidelines and have screens in place . I don't need educating on the subject the virus is far bigger than any thing else it has taken over the whole world and I certainly do not count myself as privileged . I really think you need to educate yourself on the virus.

Renate Stroud ● 2331d

It’s simple Sarah, mass gathering are banned regardless of cause. Covid is far bigger right now than any other cause, 41K + have dies in the last 4 months in the UK alone. The challenge for protests is that no one knows how many people are going to turn up, fortunately the Chiswick event had low attendance so people could social distance that was lucky the same can’t be said in some other areas. The law says no mass gathering it really is that simple.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

Ok guys... you don't have to do the work but this isn't going away. I will continue to educate and challenge where I can, but here lies the problem with people like you... (and not you Renate, I totally appreciate your situation is very different).

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Sarah you have no clue about other people’s view on anything, you are being very judgemental about other people view that in itself is discrimination, best not to judge other then we might get somewhere on equality. Other than breaking the law protesting what do you actually do for BAME?

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

Councillors also attended Jayne. Perhaps you should write to them and leave Sarah alone.

Edward Seaton ● 2331d

I think I do, but it's a small minority who do not want to stand in solidarity. I have recognised the privilege my skin colour has given me, and that I don't have to worry about walking into a shop and being judged, being stopped by police daily, or having to explain to my young child of colour why other children in school do not want to play with them because they are brown. I am educating myself and my family and friends by doing research, listening and trying to understand. I have donated money to charities, researched and signed many petitions online and am looking at ways in which the company I work for can become more diverse and support those with colour. I think day to day we can get so consumed in our small bubble worlds and not notice the small ways in which black people are suffering. Before lockdown began, I went into toy shop to try and search for a black doll for a friends child, I couldn't believe that there was not one single one in the whole store - it's small tiny day to day things like this that we as white people don't even have to consider. Imagine being a black child and having no representation in toys/books/TV shows... the more you look into it the more you realise how bad the issue is.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

How do you know I haven’t Edward? councillors attending is appalling. Sarah is the one judging others stating people ‘uneducated’ and ‘comments disgusting’ that’s pretty strong and clearly judgemental which in itself is discrimination.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

Oh jayne... if only.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Think the dolls were banned.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

And yet another perfect example of why people are protesting and why there is currently so much noise around this issue...

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

I think you are right Janice, many years ago.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

From what I can recall they wanted them banned.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Yes, you can buy vintage ones that are collectors items I believe.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

All the thing you mention are admirable, kids of all colour including white get bullied at school this is not a black issue, kids can be cruel. There are many black people who have achieved great things in our society Marcus Rashford is a brilliant example. All the issues you refer to are about individual behaviour, the policies are there to protect everyone not just black people. The real issue is educating ignorant people of any colour including white that racism is not acceptable in our society and we are doing pretty well, always more can be done.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

If you're referring to Golliwog's (the racist now banned doll), then this really does shine a light even further on your ignorance towards the issue...

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

In England, if you are male living in our most deprived areas your risk of death from an avoidable cause is 0.5%, compared to just 0.15% in the least deprived areas. That difference in mortality risk between our poorest and richest areas has increased since 2010 having reduced in the previous decade. COVID-19 has so far increased the risk of death by 0.06%. Figures are annual risks as estimated by ONS and Johns Hopkins. You are on average far more likely to avoid an avoidable death by living in Chiswick compared to the most deprived areas of the UK than the current risk you face from COVID-19. That doesn't mean we shouldn't care about avoiding deaths from COVID-19. Rather it means that taking action that reduces the inequalities from economic deprivation, including as a result of systemic racism, is going to benefit more people across this country over the long run. We should be proud of those that turned out in Chiswick to try to reduce inequality, not fearful because of the insignificant risk they posed to those already insulated from such inequality.

Tom Pike ● 2331d

Dolls Sarah, stop being patronising.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

The golly may have been the start of the reluctance to continue making black dolls.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Jayne, you are completely unaware of the sub-conscious prejudice which underlies so much of what you write. So white kids too are bullied in school, and some blacks have achieved great things. All is well, therefore, and we can smugly believe that our country is miles better than the USA in respect of racial prejudice. You have no conception of the reality of life for many black people. There is also a certain hypocrisy in asserting the paramountcy of restarting the economy over saving lives, whilst at the same time criticising protesters who you feel are endangering life.

Robert Fish ● 2331d

Right Janice. You seem to know a lot about this so do you want to explain for us all why the Golliwog (an unacceptable term/doll used) is now banned? Thanks Tom. Couldn't agree more.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Sarah you are the one lecturing, perhaps you can tell us why you were unable to buy the doll ?

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Go onto amazon. There are plenty of black dolls avialable. Stop distracting from the core discussion. But all this chat about kids reminded me:“a person who had the luxury of the option to self isolate on the family estate so his child was safe made a judgement call. He didn’t expose anyone to the virus, he did what he thought was right at the time given all the circumstances, that is not a hanging offence whichever way a reasonable person looks at it. In hindsight given his job and knowing that the worst didn’t happen I am sure he would have stayed put. I for one am very happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would like to think we live in a society that demonstrates we are not always perfect, don’t always make the right decision but then that’s called being human.”So the person who posted this very much sympathises with someone who broke pretty much every rule during the peak of the virus. In their view this person did for their family and that is ok. But this same person, when faced with a safe-distancing group of about 30 (well after the peak) who were making a demonstration about an issue, thinks it is wrong and selfish of those people involved. What the demonstrators got wrong was not to make it about the children. And to done it locally rather than driven many miles to the event.

Alan Clark ● 2331d

Agree with you 100% Tom. I am still waiting for "outraged of Chiswick" to start a thread condemning the thousands of shoppers who ignored social distancing when queuing for shops to open this morning. I also suspect that when Boris caves in to the business lobby and reduces social distancing from 2 to 1 metre there will be no widespread protests on CW4. Incidentally, limiting groups to 6 with social distancing is advice, NOT LAW.

John Connelly ● 2331d

Totally agree John, whilst I do support easing the rules to get the economy going again absolutely shocking pictures at the Nike store, Primark etc.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

Yes on Amazon, second hand.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Ok Alan!Anyway Janice I am not going to stoop down to your level. You know exactly what you were doing by raising that doll's were banned... But you are one of the many reasons why I am trying to educate myself on this exact issue and try to do better.

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Is no one else finding this slightly racist?

Sarah Henderson ● 2331d

Just seen some on Google, so you might be able to buy them.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Get a life girl, I'm trying to help you.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Primark are not on-line so it will be very busy now.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

How can you support relaxing the rules while at the same time criticise others who obeyed them in a peaceful demonstration? Was it because the demonstration was about black lives matter? Direct me to your criticism of the football hooligans in London on Saturday.

John Connelly ● 2331d

I have said nothing about the protest.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Dolls I'm quite interested in anyone trying to find them as I collect a certain make made in Germany.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Simple, John. The BLM protesters are to blame for the football hooligans. The thugs would never have turned up if there hadn't been a BLM protest planned!

Robert Fish ● 2331d

No, not slightly racist.

Tom Pike ● 2331d

I don't think Janice was being racist. You will realise from what she has since posted that she simply can't focus on the subject under discussion. She often picks up on some inconsequential element, and takes the thread off at a tangent.

Robert Fish ● 2331d

I don't talk to Robert, but you did Say Sarah you were unable to find a doll,And tried to explain why, anyhow I do know you can get very nice vintage dolls they are quite expensive but if you want one especially you will happy to pay for it.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Sarah, think whatever you like but you are very wrong.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

See what I mean, Sarah. Janice's motive for going on about black dolls was probably to help you find one.

Robert Fish ● 2331d

John, please big difference between mass gatherings which are currently illegal to relaxing rules for business to get going and you know that. I fear for mass unemployment which will make matters far worse for so many people, we do need to get going but in a measured way. Mass gatherings can come again when the virus has gone. I have already spoken out about the thugs which would include football hooligans.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2331d

i don't talk to Robert, think you will join him.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

Sarah, the fact that there are posters on this thread who immediately think that when you mention a black doll they think you mean a golliwog does indicate a woeful lack of understanding on their part at the very least. And yes, racist.

Stewart Jones ● 2331d

Stewar, don't come on here drunk trying to wind me up, you are well know for it.

Janice Evans ● 2331d

QED, Sarah

Stewart Jones ● 2331d

Ahem, Stewart. It was Sarah who first mentioned golliwogs. When Janice spoke of "dolls" being banned, I thought she had in mind that rag doll in the USA which rightly caused a furore last year — the "Feel better doll", which came with instructions to "whack the doll" whenever things didn't go well. Far worse than any golliwog.

Robert Fish ● 2331d

You can join Robert and Sarah

Janice Evans ● 2331d

I should have read all threads. Happy to stand corrected. And I retract my comment with apologies.

Stewart Jones ● 2331d

"absolutely shocking pictures at the Nike store, Primark etc."Totally agree. Quite shocking. Very, very  thick people indeed.

Steve Taylor ● 2331d

I fear you are one of those who finds everything racist Sarah.  Re your post above in reply to mine, of course something needs to be done about out-of-control, racist cops.  But gatherings that likely spread the virus are not the answer.  I am perfectly educated about racial issues.  And I assume you are educated about the threat to the population about the virus.  A second wave is predicted and there are already spikes in certain parts of the country.  In some people the virus seems to incubate for quite a long time, and you chose not to take on board my point about people being asymptomatic but still able to spread it, which could take quite a long time before it shows up after both parties have incubated it.  You clearly just don't care about over 40,000 deaths and more to come.  As the virus targets more ethnic minorities than white people, perhaps you should.

Claire Moran ● 2331d

Made me laugh.  Although I don't expect the 'hero' will find it funny that you got his name wrong.

Claire Moran ● 2331d

Well done for breaking the law?

Claire Moran ● 2331d

Jayne, if you were assaulted in the street that would be illegal. A socially distanced protest of any sort is not against the law regardless of your opinion or mine.

John Connelly ● 2331d

How can anyone know what social distancing took place with the 100 people attending this protest.  If you saw two or more people standing near each other, how could you know if they were from the same household or breaking the rules?

Maggie Dodge ● 2331d

Actually, they are illegal:-https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52909814

Claire Moran ● 2331d

From the few photos and descriptions I’ve read, the social distancing taking place during the protest seemed to be considerably more responsible than that seen in many of the photos of people queuing outside some of the shops that reopened on Monday. The easing of the lock down is a balancing act of benefit v harm  and it strikes me that there was a lot of encouragement by the organiser for the participants to recognise the need for social distancing, and this was taken heed of.Was the protest illegal? Well it was a gathering, but people weren’t close together in large groups so maybe it wasn’t?It’s happened now, it went well, it served a good purpose and posed far less risk than what we see going on elsewhere in our parks and outside some shops. And, at the moment it’s better to have protests like these rather than large protests with lots of people travelling long distances on public transport.

Andrew Jones ● 2331d

Thank you Andrew Jones for pointing out the positives of the day. Thank you everyone who is engaging in this discussion. Even more thanks for those who understand the reason this happened we need to keep talking about BLACK LIVES MATTER until we get it right together.As an educator i like to help people understand. I Hope these links i leave will help and if your find these resources useful please share.The Idea of a Protest is to get a message heard after that positive talks and actions can be taken within the community to help make lives for all better.Photos and videos of the Peaceful and socially distanced protest:https://photos.app.goo.gl/QAzNxHca5yheSwX46Intersectionality why its important and what it means in practice:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1islM0ytkE&feature=youtu.behttps://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a32745051/what-black-lives-matter-means/Videos and articles explaining BLACK LIVES MATTERhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YCu5B6AMoQThe History of Racism on a comedy showhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_FE78X-qdY&t=614s How Racism is a Human Problem and Bias lives in all cultures. A Unity Message of coming together to tackle racismhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqE6VNMsrEc&feature=shareSpoken word about how we get through the hate and confusion to unify for equality for all.https://youtu.be/KPRA4g-3yEkThe reality of how BAME (Black and Minority Ethnics) live their daily lives from a white persons point of view - done through the lens of comedyhttps://justiceforbelly.com/The reality of Covid-19 and Racism.Feel free to message me to arrange a call if you feel like your questions are not being answered. I read through all the replies i care but do not have time to reply to each query individually. I was really glad for the police presence called in by the local councillor i built a good rapport with them to help keep peaceful protester's and the public safe. Loved having some of the congregation of Christ Church supporting us in this very traumatic time in recent human history.07935677964Kindest RegardsAnil

Anil Patel ● 2331d

I am absolutely gobsmacked. "Women on periods are advised to wear pads instead of tampons..." It was a protest. Not an expedition or military campaign.

Pippa Meldrum ● 2331d

Anil why do you think that women need your advice on the issue of sanitary protection. Are you perhaps sexist ? assuming a mere woman couldn’t figure this out for themselves.  Do you have experience on the matter?

Maggie Dodge ● 2331d

Why are you so offended? I should think what Anil put out was a generic list for many a demonstration which may have been of some assistance to some people.

Anne England ● 2331d

I found so much of it concerning and patronising to men and women.  I think the onus was on him to adapt a generic list to fit the situation and this list did not strike me as appropriate for a small peaceful protest.  Perhaps you would like to answer my specific question about the women's sanitary protection that I posed to Anil.

Maggie Dodge ● 2331d

I didn't find what Anil posted to be offensive and therefore there is nothing to 'answer'.

Anne England ● 2331d

Oh well each to his own. Just the words “women on periods” makes me cringe 😬 So unnecessary in my opinion .

Maggie Dodge ● 2331d

Maggie and Pippa - Diane's comments got me too at first and I blasted off - someone pointed out Diane's comments were a JOKE and ironic.  I re-read it all and yes of course it was a big send up.  Just pleased I was not the only person to be "had".    The ardent Anvil makes one loose one's sense of humour entirely.

Jennifer Selig ● 2331d

Anvil, when I re-checked his opening salvo announcing this parade, did actually suggest how women should cope with their bodily functions.  Amazed he didn't tell men how to contain their urges to pee or copulate at such events.  Discretion big time imo!  No wonder I was enraged and and had suffered a complete loss of humour!  Good for Diane and her apt ironic post.

Jennifer Selig ● 2331d

Jennifer, "Anvil" are a heavy metal band. The OP has the not-uncommon name Anil.

Richard Greenhough ● 2331d

Oh dear - this demonstration thread has evolved into a menstruation thread.

Steve Taylor ● 2331d

Are urges to pee and copulate a male preserve?

Anne England ● 2331d

.. not sure about the word “evolved”..disintegrated more like...For the little it's worth, I feel Anne's view is more of the minority variety..The vast majority of the ladies I know would be a few yards in front of Jennifer, Maggie and others and see this part of the angle as downright creepy....

Stuart Kerr ● 2331d

Not creepy, but crass. But if the ladies are so squeamish about menstruation, why do they continue to make such a fuss?

Robert Fish ● 2331d

Well I will admit to when sanitary products and Durex and the like first began to be advertised on the television (and it wasn't really all that long ago) I thought 'they can't do THAT' but then hey ho, one gets used to it and it's no big deal. I wonder whether the squeamish ladies/those that object or are even affronted find adverts for TENA Lady or Viagra objectionable. Or for constipation or other bodily functions, for that matter. Or could it be that they just don't like a man putting such things out there. Would it have been okay coming from a woman?Had a bit of a laugh writing that - sorry, Anil maybe time to get back to reports of how the demonstration went. I'm glad to hear it was indeed socially-distanced although (surprise, surprise) I don't actually think that mass gatherings are a good idea at this time.

Anne England ● 2331d

Perhaps the upset or amusement depending on your persuasion is a useful distraction from what the BLM movement is all about.

James Carter ● 2331d

I doubt there's been many squeamish ladies around since the 1960's Anne.  All the stuff you mention has for ages been the bread and butter of stand-up comedy all over.But coming from Anil like that..... Really???I mean, maybe the guy's a part time gynaecologist when he's not campaigning.  Maybe periods are the first thing that enters his mind when his female demonstrators gather away from the loo..But honestly – you're a gal.  Haven't a clue of your age but in your prime would you find his “reminder” the least bit necessary?  Or wanted?  Or valued?Incidentally - that first Tena girl ad's very clever.  Pretty girl, sexy sideways smile – pats her gorgeous boobs proudly - and what a surprise, she's got an incontinence problem...  Irresistible combination..  Sales must have boomed..  Might buy some myself if she comes in the packet...

Stuart Kerr ● 2331d

I think it was Anne that made the perceptive comment that it was probably a generic list of points for many a demonstration In that respect ladies would have needed to be reminded of the possibility of police kettling, which might mean they would be trapped for hours on end. It's all a bit clumsy, but nothing more than that. No need to attribute a pervy motive.

Robert Fish ● 2331d

I've trawled through this ever lengthening thread and found Diane Winter's post, which amused me - it's a relief to see a bit of light-hearted humour in these dark, depressing times. Of course it was tongue in cheek. I can't imagine how anyone could have taken it seriously. Irony rules OK! I hope she posts again.

Jill Merrett ● 2331d

Oh, and periods rule OK too!

Jill Merrett ● 2331d

Yeah Robert.. maybe..Anyway and for what it's worth, I was there on Sunday.  Not standing in line on the pavement against the fence but about 30 yards away.  Alone.  Lending my support but away from people..  Staying alive for my own sake and others.    Was Anil the big guy with the big beard filming on his phone?It was all totally peaceful and did only what was expected.  Not a smidgeon or sign of trouble.  Incredibly low key police presence.Re this forum.  It's a shame that two such monumental issue have clashed.Keeping our resolve at beating the Covid virus and keeping up the momentum on racism in the wake of George Floyd's murder  are both massively important.    Neither side can possibly claim they own all the high moral ground at the expense of the other.  It's not them v us as several of you keep insinuating.  With some posters looking to insult and deride.  Both sides need to give space to the other.Because both sides, I believe, support both issues in parallel.  At least they bloody well should...

Stuart Kerr ● 2331d

"In that respect ladies would have needed to be reminded of the possibility of police kettling"What rubbish. No way would UK police be kettling during this pandemic.

Steve Taylor ● 2331d

"No way would police be kettling during this pandemic". How wrong you are! What about Downing Street on both 6 and 7 June? On the second occasion police wouldn't let people leave until 1.41 am.

Robert Fish ● 2331d

Let's just say I'm at the time of life when University of the Third Age has been a possibility for quite some years already.Regarding whether, in my prime, I would have found Anil's period 'reminder' necessary, wanted or valued, I think I would just think he meant well by it and that there was no harm putting it out there. I wonder what the age is of those who found the advice so disturbing or whatever it is they found it - I wouldn't be surprised if they are much the same age as me.Now as for your final paragraph ...

Anne England ● 2330d

"I wonder what the age is of those who found the advice so disturbing or whatever it is they found it - I wouldn't be surprised if they are much the same age as me..."I trust you're not somehow elevating yourself above these fine local neighbours..  Suggesting something I know not what...Good....Carry on...

Stuart Kerr ● 2330d

I don't understand the 'elevating myself' bit. Anyway, each to their own as to what they think of Anil's part-period post, I'm past positing. (I like a bit of alliteration.)P.S. I too, am your neighbour, albeit in Brentford. Am I allowed?!

Anne England ● 2330d

Hello Neighbours. (Including Brentford I believe it is the historical site of a famous battle in the English Civil War.)Just dropping in I can't sleep so I have been doing some research and learning to pass the time. Here are the rest of the media from the peaceful protest and resources I found tonight to help heal any confusion or trauma you may or may not be feeling. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c68poo1862i912x/AAAeddHFHQ5Ume6YdmRJ6CTya?dl=0https://photos.app.goo.gl/QAzNxHca5yheSwX46https://www.ted.com/talks/peggy_mcintosh_how_to_recognize_your_white_privilege_and_use_it_to_fight_inequality?language=enhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/amp/I see that period shame has been discussed. I urge men to read this information:https://www.shethinx.com/blogs/thinx-womens-health/overcome-period-shame-swns-infographicI would like to thank all contributers to this forum for keeping the important discussion going. Covid-19 and Systemic Racism are very serious problems in our society and is even more interwined when we have people of BAME at higher risk of dying from Covid-19.Lastly i would like to point out that I have never organised a protest before so in preparation (A valuable lesson I learnt when I was a scout) I researched all possible outcomes and put as much information out there to keep everyone safe. I can not predict the future but I can make sure I and anyone else is well Informed and prepared. I even went to the lengths of buying an adult diaper for myself. Thankfully I had no need for it. I did not want to mention this but thought I had too in order to create understanding. It was very scary to organise this. So I am very thankful for all the locals who helped make it a positive peaceful and most importantly safe protest. Kindest Regards AnilI won't be popping by until the end of the week now so feel free to text me if you have a direct personal query. I would kindly ask you to not ask personal questions to me in public forum. 07935677964Anil (Not spelt like the heavy metal band perviously mentioned. Thank you for bringing the band to my attention though albeit from a crass attempt at humour)

Anil Patel ● 2330d

"Why is Scotland allowed to have 8 people max? Does the virus perhaps lose some of its effectiveness after that tiring dash up the M1?" I posted this question much earlier on, but no one seems to have an answer.

Brian Coyle ● 2330d

Because the devolved governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are listening to different advisers - as indeed are most governments across the world. Covid-19 caught out most medical advisers as it was not the flu-like pandemic they had planned for, and its behavioural patterns were - and to an extent still are - unknown.

Richard Greenhough ● 2330d

Thank you Anil for a well organised and successful protest, for me the discussion on here since you first posted your invite shows exactly why such events are needed.It is a shame that some people here seem more caught up in the semantics of the language of the invite, which was quite clearly well intentioned, if a little blunt for some perhaps, rather then the actual issue. Hopefully those who claim they are willing to engage in a discussion on the actual issue will take the time to read some of the information you have so thoughfully collated here and in your previous post. Well done to you and everyone involved and thanks again for organising, i hope to see you again at any future local events.

Jonathan Oppe ● 2330d

“I even went to the lengths of buying an adult diaper for myself.”We really did not need to be told that!

Georgina Flint ● 2330d

Stay home, stay safe, use your own toilet, avoid demonstrations like the plague and protect the NHS.

Steve Taylor ● 2330d

I think our obsession about not talking about adult diapers or nappies is very funny.  The first time I remember them being mentioned was when there was a murder in the States and the suspected murderer had to have driven miles and miles (as you really can there) without a loo stop so couldn't possibly have committed it. Not so impossible wearing an adult diaper.

Philippa Bond ● 2329d

I find Sarah Henderson's comments extremely patronising.  I am also most alarmed at her ignorance of the virus.  It has not disappeared...we are merely hiding from it.  Now is not the time for these ludicrous protests.

Danielle Fox ● 2325d

You need to 'pop by' a little more often, A