Forum Topic

Traffic restrictions for Turnham Green Terr & Devonshire Road

I am guessing Hounslow Council want to kill off the small shops.  The idea of nipping down to the butchers, greengrocers & deli for a weekly shop will be rendered impossible for many.  Lea & Sandermans on Devonshire Road/CHR corner might as well close now because you can virtually never get parked other than on Devonshire Road.This sort of idea has been tried many times by many councils around the country over the years.  Every time it kills the high street. But of course Hounslow Council could not give a monkeys about the blue enclave of Chiswick, they probably regard killing small shops as a badge of honour

Justin Stephenson ● 2348d60 Comments

The Chiswick Councillors are supporting the measures which have been initiated by the government and driven through the DfT deal with TfL. Everybody is behind it. I’ve given you an answer on the shops part of your concerns on the other thread. Almost everybody coming to the queues on TGT is arriving on foot or by bike. Hardly anybody is driving and the shops can barely keep up with the demand. It will be a relief when cars are not pushing their way through and the traders can take more space for their businesses.

Paul Campbell ● 2348d

Justin, the seem to be primarily aiming to benefit shops particularly the independent traders on TGT and Devonshire Road. They must have been consulted about it and presumably are keen on the idea.Paul, it is dangerous nonsense to suggest local shops can't keep up with demand. The queues outside are due to the need for social distancing not a sudden rush of new customers. Nearly every shop has seen a significant drop in turnover. Creating the impression they are coining it might undermine the efforts to encourage people to start using them more again.

Dan Evans ● 2348d

Oh give over with the histrionics Dan

Paul Campbell ● 2348d

Paul, you really need to put your brain in gear before getting your typewriter out. This is a really challenging time for all local retailers and the last thing they need is someone going around suggesting business is booming for them.

Felicity Caborn ● 2348d

Narrow crowded pavements are going to kill off shopping streets as well.  People need space to walk, pass each other and queue.  It was difficult enough before this!

Philippa Bond ● 2348d

What on earth - it is perfectly possible to 'nip down to the shops' on foot or by bike - if you cannot carry everything in a basket use a shopping trolley - like 100s of older people do who don't have a car. World over people manage to shop car free - why is this so difficult to understand in Chiswick.

Ruth Mayorcas ● 2348d

You can give it a rest as well Felicity. The shops I am queuing at are fantastic and are attracting customers because they are so good at what they do and have fantastic produce. The idea that me mentioning it on a local forum threatens their business is, to be polite, puzzling. I’d suggest that you and Dan engage your brains before suggesting that they need charity.

Paul Campbell ● 2348d

A lot of people depend on their car to remain independent and it would be worrying if they are not considered during any changes.

Janice Evans ● 2348d

Paul, hopefully when you awake this morning and are sober you will understand what people have been trying to tell you but, just in case, no Chiswick retailer is struggling to cope with demand at the moment. Footfall and takings are well down on what they would have been otherwise. They need our support.

Anita Blake ● 2347d

I think it's a great shame they've chosen restrictions on the only two roads where you can get 30 minutes free parking.  Perhaps they could make the parking area outside the (what was) police station a free parking area instead.  It would encourage people to use that end of the High Road.  And yes, I know it no doubt encourages the use of cycles, but, selfishly and due to my increasingly dodgy knees, I can't cycle.  The 30 minutes was just right to get a few things in the Terrace.

Micki Hawkes ● 2347d

I am supporting them Anita. With my custom and the letters I have sent to Councillors and Council officers to press the case for them to have more space. Standing in the queue for 45 minutes to buy fish is support. You and your friends trying to find an opportunity to take a pop at me isn’t supporting them and you can keep your insinuations about drinking and wake times to yourself.

Paul Campbell ● 2347d

And actually while I am here a big shout out to the team at Covent Garden Fishmongers for all their hard work. This week we have had a whopper of a lobster with home made herby mayonnaise and chips,  a big fat turbot roasted on a bed of fennel and tarragon, red mullets with an orange and tarragon salt rub barbecued, and rainbow trout in a wine and lemon parcel. All super fresh and well worth the queue. The slab has never looked better in the 20 years I’ve been shopping here and the day boat catches from Cornwall and the Bristol Channel are amazing. Today we will be spatchcocking a Macken chicken for the BBQ and making a spice rub. Eating it with courgettes and white Italian beans from Natoora. Perhaps other loyal supporters of the TGT shops could share their recipes and highlights of the week?

Paul Campbell ● 2347d

You don't need to drive down TGT or Devonshire Road to shop on them so people who need to drive to the shops shouldn't be unduly affected.There is plenty of parking at the moment as the number of people visiting the High Road is down significantly and the temporary loss of 20 or so parking spaces isn't going to make that much difference.Some of the traders may not be completely happy with the move for instance the Oxfam Bookshop may be worried about a drop in donations. However, it looks like the council will be waiving the requirements to get pavement trading licences so some shops may be able to set out open air stalls. Rather than getting upset about it, it might be an idea to see how it plays out. As long as the council is quick to restore vehicle access if the lack of it does prove to have a negative impact then what harm is there in giving it a try at the moment?As we return to normality though some proper planning is needed for Chiswick Town Centre and parking. You can't have a viable commercial area with a policy of constantly putting the squeeze on parking space and trying to discourage shoppers visiting by car. We accept that our local cyclists are really amazing and an example to us all but they don't make up the largest proportion of customers, pedestrians are the biggest by far. People arriving in cars although smaller in percentage terms are essential to the survival of Chiswick retailers.A shop has a whole host of fixed costs - rent, rates etc.  which means they have to generate a certain level of income to breakeven. In most cases the margin that they make in excess of breakeven is small - maybe 10% so a 10% fall in customers means a total wipeout of profit. Car based shoppers tend to buy more because they may have chosen to use the car precisely because they were planning to purchase more than they could carry home.Hounslow seems to have been operating an implicit policy of discouraging car based shopping in Chiswick for at least a decade and the consequences were seen before the lockdown with the high proportion of empty shops. In environmental terms this policy makes little sense because a proportion of the people you discourage from driving to their nearest shopping centre will just drive to one further away where they are made feel welcome. Many people who could be spending their money are now driving to Kew Retail Park or Westfield. Last Christmas people in Chiswick even got a part council funded leaflet extolling the virtues of shopping in Ealing including the great parking.The experiment on TGT and Devonshire Road may be well-timed because of the availability of parking and the good weather but when we get to Autumn and Winter and hopefully the end of a need for social distancing I don't think the scheme will remain popular. A far higher proportion of people drive to shop when it is colder and wetter and local traders really need to maximise their revenue to make up for the appalling losses they have experienced recently. The economic viability of Chiswick as a commercial centre should be the top priority for Hounslow Council and they start listening to what local traders are telling them when they formulate their policy.

Anita Blake ● 2347d

"and due to my increasingly dodgy knees, I can't cycle.I have extremely dodgy knees. Cycling is less painful than walking.

Ken Munn ● 2347d

This area is not crowded so the parking should not be suspended.

Chris Lucy ● 2347d

How are you supposed to get from the south side of the high road to the Avenue or South Parade - or streets in between - if both Fishers Lane and TGT are inaccessible?  Will all traffic be forced down Acton Lane and Belmont Terrace?A pedestrianised TGT does sound wonderful though. Those pavements are too narrow for users ordinarily – let alone during a pandemic!

Caroline Benn ● 2347d

"The economic viability of Chiswick as a commercial centre should be the top priority for Hounslow Council and they start listening to what local traders are telling them when they formulate their policy"Couldn't agree with you more, Anita.However, LBH has a dreadful reputation to date for engaging with local traders. They're great at responding to letters from local campaigners, but they really don't give a toss about any other perspective other than those that fit their agenda. So a skewed result versus a properly researched holistic plan is the norm. Sadly.And let me say, as the sole trader thus far to respond, you and others are spot on in terms of interpreting a queue. It is a necessity rather than an indication. As lock down slowly eases, venues of all types will only be able to operate at a fraction of capacity which nullifies any typical business model. This is unchartered territory across the board.

David Lesniak ● 2347d

This is the 1st have heard of this proposal. As someone who drives towards Acton using Turnham Green Terrace as a standard route I'd be interested to know what alternative routes are being suggested. Stopping traffic through here will only increase volumes along Chiswick High Rd going either towards Acton Lane or Goldhawk Road. Woukd mean longer travel times, more pollution not to mention congestion at these pinch points. Only a while back parking was increased here with 30 minute grace period for shoppers so that wS a waste of time and effort if to be stopped. What with this and the impending cycle lanes there will be utter chaos on the roads of Chiswick

Dean Isaac ● 2347d

The place to air your viewshttps://hounslowstreetspace.commonplace.is/

Jan Porter ● 2347d

Anita,It is important not to overstate the importance of driving to shops in an urban area like Chiswick.A survey done by the council a few years ago found that only 8% of shoppers on CHR had driven there. It was 18% in the recent Chiswick Flower Market survey (which was self reported, not a random sample)You say that people driving spend more per visit and surveys have found that. However people driving make fewer visits so their overall spend per month is less than people using other modes of transport.Another survey done for Chiswick Flower Market found that the peak turnover of cars in the parking area outside the George IV was about 45 cars per hour. At typical London occupancy levels that is about 60 people per hour. Pre-COVID, that is less than the capacity of one bus and even post-COVID, it is just a few buses.That’s really a tiny number of people for such a large space.People think that lots of people come by car because so much space is taken up by cars both in the roads and for parking. But the reality is that cars are such an inefficient use of space that it really isn’t that many people.  There is little chance of substantially increasing footfall by increasing numbers of people driving, far better to focus on modes of transport that can actually support more people and reallocate road space to attract more people.

Michael Robinson ● 2347d

To me, having given up all short-distance driving in and around London, this is an exciting experiment.Far better (rather than endlessly talking about it) to actually try it..Some will hate the idea, obviously.For now let's just suck it and see...

Stuart Kerr ● 2347d

Missing from your evidence, Michael, is the post-Covid data. Their is none. So no telling what the trends will be. As lock down eases and more people get out and about by whatever mode, it may be simply to get around and not to socialize or shop. There is considerable concern in the hospitality sector operating at reduced capacity is untenable and counter to the experience of being in a lively social setting. Are you ready to eat in restaurants where food is served by gloved hands and masked servers in a room that can only be 25% occupied? Granted specifics don't exist in the UK, but just read about the experience from other emerging economies which will undoubtedly influence policies here. Not a pretty picture.

David Lesniak ● 2347d

It looks as if some local shops are doing OK during the present restrictions. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/27/uk-corner-shops-and-independent-grocers-ring-up-63-per-cent-rise-in-sales-coronavirusIt could be that, as things ease up, more people will shop locally for fear of using public transport to go further afield, or conversely, have got used to online shopping from home, with the extra traffic that generates.

Peter Evans ● 2347d

Michael, you missed what was the key point about Anita's post that concerning the importance of the customer at the margin once you have reached breakeven point. If you haven't run a business the concept may be unfamiliar to you but imagine for a moment you were running a business that suddenly became unable to sell anything to left handed people. You might think that is no big deal because most of your customers are right handed but it is likely that all of your profits would be gone because the lost business comes straight off the bottom line.Anita is aware that cars bring a small proportion of trade for most Chiswick businesses - she mentions the fact. It is not a shopping destination for people outside the area because of the parking issue. The exception to that is Sainsbury's which a local shop owner told me makes more sales in a day than every other shop in Chiswick put together and is Sainsbury's highest turnover store per square foot in the entire country. I wonder what it could be about Sainsbury's that makes this so.

Francis Rowe ● 2347d

They will drive out further.

Janice Evans ● 2347d

Michael I don't get these surveys, how do they know how many people were in the cars.

Janice Evans ● 2347d

I don't think paving TGT is the answer.  If traffic is to decrease, in better times people will have to use public transport more and it would create a long diversion for the E3 bus. By all means buses and cabs only but that would still create huge bottlenecks in Fisher's Lane and other routes onto the High Road from North Chiswick.  There are huge contradictions in the advice we are getting.  "Drive more as it's safer".  But then they are looking at blocking off roads which will increase congestion.  "Cycle more" so they are narrowing the pavements to create cycle lanes on them. "Walk more and we are widening the pavements to allow for more people to walk and social distance at the same time." No they are not, they are narrowing them to make space for cycle lanes.  If they take the space from the road instead for cycle lanes (unlikely), and block other entrances to the high road from North South congestion, and therefore pollution and road rage, will increase in leaps and bounds, especially now that more people are likely to follow the government advice to drive more to stay safe. "It's safer to eat outside than in a restaurant." Restaurants with outside space will have to severely curtail the number of tables they can currently have outside due to the new cycle lane.  Joined up thinking is sadly lacking.

Claire Moran ● 2347d

I am a business owner in Devonshire Road. I have spoken to other businesses along the road and all I have spoken to are surprised to say the least about the proposals. It is hard to make any kind of judgement without knowing the exact plans and proposals and we have not been given the information. There may well be a place online to give an opinion but speaking from the perspective of a business owner it would have been nice to have been given all the facts and details before reading about in in a chiswickw4 newsletter or on the front page. Again all shop keepers I have spoken to have said the same. I of course understand the need for pedestrians and cyclists to move around Chiswick safely and in these times to be able to socially distance  whilst shopping  , however this must be balanced with sensibly ensuring business are not adversely affected by such changes. I know that a number of businesses in Devonshire Road do have customers who have to use cars or vans to collect bulky orders or to travel to , not speaking on their behalf but I can think of the Pet Shop, W4 Bathrooms , Tribe carpets, Devonshire Glass, Chiropractors, Top Hat Drycleaners and ourselves Chiswick Lighting  to name a few. Small businesses are already facing a huge climb out of the troubles we are in due to Covid 19 and I think they should be spoken to and informed in detail about the plans and listened to . I am surprised and puzzled that not so long ago free 30 minute parking was introduced by Houslow Council  along Devonshire Road and Turnham Green Terrace and was considered a huge step in boosting business along those roads . This of course is in stark contrast to the new proposals. I am also wondering how the traffic will exit Glebe Street on to Devonshire Road?....Are Capital Motors considered in this?...Whilst I will remain open minded until I know the plans in detail I have to say how upset I am and many owners are that we were not spoken to and that all of the information received is from this website and the newsletter .

Penny Ledbury ● 2347d

Being the cinic I am this all all looks like panic measures by Hounslow who are closing roads and placing planters here and there in one hell of a rush just to try and make sure they don't loose out on funding before a deadline.

Adrian Irving ● 2347d

I'm really pleased with this. Cut the cars.

Carl Wynne ● 2347d

It’s the “new better”. Implement and then improve. Far better than the “old worse” which was to consult with everybody forever and discover that you can’t please all the people all of the time and then do nothing. I am certain that access for loading and unloading at local shops, disabled parking and the continuation of the E3 route are all in the plans and I know that we have very thoughtful and considerate people discussing them including our local Councillors in Chiswick who were elected to represent our interests after all. Also TGT and Devonshire roads are not about cycling; they are about walking, social distancing, and more space for traders to do business. These are the new government guidelines straight from the DfT to TfL and the Boroughs and supported by local Councillors. Extraordinary times demand extraordinary measures and I applaud the government for at least getting this bit right.

Paul Campbell ● 2347d

I share your concerns, Penny.  The only details on the Hounslow website are at https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/news/article/1039/council_proceeds_at_pace_with_hounslow_streetspace_initiatives_to_reallocate_road_space_to_pedestrians_and_cyclists_and_create_more_space_for_businesses_to_safely_reopenIt says that traffic on Devonshire Road will be limited to "essential servicing".  But there is no mention of how Prince of Wales Terrace will be affected, including Capital Motors and resident parking there. Nor does it explain how far south the restrictions will apply; is it just as far as Glebe Street or beyond?If Devonshire Road is blocked to through traffic, the only access from the north into the 500 households of the Glebe Estate will be via Duke Road, which cannot support increased traffic.  It's all very well wanting to carry out changes without endless consultation, and indeed I'm willing to put up with some inconvenience if it helps local businesses to recover from the lockdown, but this looks like a change that might well become permanent.  In which case, the wider impacts do need to be considered.The news item on this site said "The Council is expanding the number of Streetspace projects across the borough based on ‘hundreds’ of responses to a recent consultation. They say by far the largest number related to the Chiswick Town Centre area."  That consultation is still live until 25 June; you can give your views at https://hounslowstreetspace.commonplace.is/

Richard Jennings ● 2347d

There are predictions of doom every time motor traffic is restricted.For example, Orford Rd in Waltham Forest. Before parking and through traffic was stopped a coffin was carried to signify the death of the street but now it is a thriving and pleasant local shopping street with reduced empty lots.It is easy to see the improvement on google street view.Parking and through traffic has just been stopped on Broadway Market Hackney. It appears to be thriving.https://twitter.com/Hackneycyclist/status/1267089495494660101?s=20I expect that “Chiswick exceptionalism” will mean claims that things working in other areas of London can never, ever work in Chiswick.“Duke Road, which cannot support increased traffic“What is the basis for your claim? Pre-COVID traffic on Duke Rd was measured at about 1500 cars a day with a southbound peak of about 70 vehicles per hour in the morning and northbound peak of about 125 cars per hour in the afternoon.In comparison, Dukes Ave has about double the traffic.

Michael Robinson ● 2347d

It's one thing to put a few temporary bollards and planters down to give more room for shops to spread onto the pavement and for shoppers to spill into the road during the virus restrictions, but I'd have thought making the same schemes permanent would need a lot more consideration.

Peter Evans ● 2347d

I’m assuming the changes will be made using Experimental Traffic Orders which will give up to 18 months consideration before deciding to make changes permanent or remove them.

Michael Robinson ● 2347d

"What on earth - it is perfectly possible to 'nip down to the shops' on foot or by bike - if you cannot carry everything in a basket use a shopping trolley - like 100s of older people do who don't have a car. World over people manage to shop car free - why is this so difficult to understand in Chiswick."I agree. Also, it's not like W4 is short of decent public transport.I appreciate Penny's comments but think that there must be some sort of middle ground.Some of the people on this forum appear to be unable to move without driving (disclaimer: I cannot drive due to medical issues, but am in possession of an utterly vile tartan shopping trolley which serves its purposes).

Mike Firth ● 2347d

Penny, what a well observed and reasoned argument.Please don't let the fools (see above)who do not understand the needs of some with disabilities to be disregarded.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2347d

It's in an area that is very easy to walk to so they get a massive top up from you standard park and shop.

Tony Smart ● 2347d

Duke Road, which cannot support increased traffic"What is the basis for your claim?"That section of Duke Road has poor sightlines because of two bends and is not wide enough for two cars to pass if, as is usual, cars are parked on both sides.  This can be handled if traffic is light, but if multiple vehicles arrive from both directions, gridlock develops.  "Parking and through traffic has just been stopped on Broadway Market Hackney. It appears to be thriving."I was there last year at a weekend when there was no traffic, and I agree, the atmosphere was brilliant.  I would be very pleased if something like that could be arranged for Devonshire Road, but the whole scheme needs to be thought through so that other impacts are dealt with.  It's not just a matter of putting up "No entry except for access" signs on one road.

Richard Jennings ● 2347d

Francis, I know enough about business to say you have come up with a crap analogy.You are treating business like a zero sum game so if there are fewer of one type of customer then there is absolutely nothing that can be done to attract more of other types of customer. That’s just dumb.Can you explain why retailers increased their revenues on the day when Turnham Green Terrace was shut to through traffic and didn’t have any parking last September? It’s an easy answer, a lot more people visited the street and retailers could use space for more profitable activities than it it was used to store lumps of metal for a small number of people.

Michael Robinson ● 2347d

Dukes Avenue is much wider than Duke Road. I live on the Glebe Estate and constantly face gridlock on Duke Road, not to mention witnessing violent altercations with people refusing to reverse to allow people through, and that's before this new crackpot scheme is introduced (followed by the cycle route that will force yet more traffic down that tiny road and into this peaceful community). Your counter claim of 125 cars an hour actually undermines your argument. That's a potential flashpoint every 30 seconds!

James Bloom ● 2347d

Duke Rd has about twice as much northbound traffic as southbound traffic and of the northbound traffic, about 80% is cutting through the Glebe estate from Devonshire Rd via Bennett St, Glebe St, Fraser St etc. This traffic doesn’t need to use Duke Rd to access CHR, it could go via Annandale Rd.I assume a lot of it doesn’t because people want to avoid the traffic lights on Annandale Rd.

Michael Robinson ● 2347d

About 80% of that northbound peak is cutting through from Devonshire Rd so if you want to reduce traffic on Dukes Rd and Glebe Estate then ask for these streets to be filtered so more traffic uses Annandale Rd to access CHR. It’s just cutting through via Duke Rd to avoid traffic lights.

Michael Robinson ● 2347d

Shoppers spilling onto the High Road?  I'd rather take my chances with the virus.

Claire Moran ● 2347d

Poor old Glebe estate.  I bought my first flat in Chiswick on Duke Road, a bijou (ie tiny) little ground floor flat on the corner of Reckitt Road, opposite the then Boltons Pub. No garden but a little side return and parking space at the back.  I adored it and the proximity to not just the High Road, 7 min walk from the underground but also Chiswick House, albeit under a noisy main road.  That end of the road at the time was quite quiet as regards traffic as it's a no through road but if all this goes ahead, traffic will be pushed further and further down the road to take less congested shortcuts onto the main road.

Claire Moran ● 2347d

Michael, there was a festival on the day that TGT was shut to traffic so it can't be held as a representative sample. Also want is the source of your claim that retailers increased their revenue? I was under the impression that while others did well some said it had hit turnover negatively.I've now worked out that you get abusive when you realise the weakness of any counter argument you make. The prospect for achieving overall footfall in Chiswick's commercial area by exclusively encouraging shoppers who walk or cycle is dim. You might be able to increase the proportion of those that shop in a particular street by making it more attractive but ultimately the numbers that will come by foot or bike overall is fixed. Any significant change in trade overall has to come from those from outside the area most of whom would arrive by car.I won't labour the point because you have never changed your mind on any subject in the history of this forum. This closure seems likely to go ahead and, while social distancing is operating, I can see how it could work for most if not all retailers. However, it is pointless you and I arguing about which one of us understands business most. Would you be able to accept that the people who will understand best how this change is affecting business on Turnham Green Terrace are people running businesses on Turnham Green Terrace and, if they say the closure is negatively affecting their revenue, then it should be scrapped?

Francis Rowe ● 2346d

"when Turnham Green Terrace was shut to through traffic and didn’t have any parking last September?"Never a surprise to see a disingenuous reply from Michael. The day in question was a publicized event which would draw more attention than your average business day. Given your predilection for data, Michael, you always do yourself a disservice when skewing the position.

David Lesniak ● 2346d

Encouraging more traffic to use Annandale Road isn't really an option because of the short phase on the lights with the junction at CHR. It doesn't take much of a build up of traffic to result in tailbacks right up the road, which don't forget, is residential.

Dan Evans ● 2346d

When I went with Sam Hearn to Waltham Forest we visited Orford Road which Michael mentions further down this thread. The Council had implemented access restrictions a few years before. One of the traders led a long campaign against the closure to cars culminating in a protest with 300 people following a coffin down the street to symbolise the death of the street and shops. Our guide told us that trader had privately approached him a couple of years after the closure to admit that he had got it totally wrong and that his business and the others were thriving. It is a lovely road with bustling cafes and shops and a piazza at the top where there used to be a busy junction.

Paul Campbell ● 2346d

So do you think that arrangements for traffic in the area are simply perfect and shouldn’t be changed in the slightest?The one predictable thing about proposed changes to traffic is that some people will say “oh, you can’t do that”, “oh, that isn’t an option”. Same was said about Stile Hall Gardens and Wellesley and it is happening this week.It’s almost as if roads had never been closed or changed at any time before. The local area is full of examples of road closures. People get used to them. It would be good if there was a record of what the naysayers said before all the previous road closures.It will be fun this week assuming the plans for Chiswick south of the A4 come out. I wonder how many “oh, you can’t change that...” comments there will be?

Michael Robinson ● 2346d

That's just a pointless generalisation. Any change has to be considered from the point of view of the cost and benefit. You have said yourself earlier that there isn't that much traffic going through the retail bit of Devonshire Road. If redirecting it through Duke Road and Annandale Road causes congestion in local residential roads then would you not consider the costs outweigh the benefits?

Dan Evans ● 2346d

I didn’t say “there isn’t that much traffic going through the retail bit of Devonshire Rd” because I don’t know how much traffic is going through the retail bit of Devonshire Rd.I have data from a traffic survey done last year on the area bounded by CHR, Sutton Court Rd, A4 and Devonshire Rd so can provide excruciating detail on the streets within this area but not Devonshire Rd itself.The primary objective of restricting through traffic on Devonshire Rd is to boost retail on the street. This is by providing retailers more space to expand onto the street and creating a more attractive area for people to visit. There are lots of examples all over London where this has been done.Clearly more people visiting and shopping on Devonshire Rd will have an impact upon residents. However I don’t see why residents living near a shopping street should have an absolute veto on any measures to improve shopping on that street.

Michael Robinson ● 2346d

"The primary objective of restricting through traffic on Devonshire Rd is to boost retail on the street. This is by providing retailers more space to expand onto the street and creating a more attractive area for people to visit." Does this mean Hounslow will not be charging business for use of street space as they do at the moment of not? I think we can guess the answer.Will Hounslow allow business to erect permanent weather protection to the goods they have outside? I think we can guess the answer.Would Hounslow consider making this seasonal? Parking permitted after the clocks fall back and not after the clocks spring foward? I think we can guess the answer.

Adrian Irving ● 2346d

Francis, your closing argument implies that you think TGT is there solely for the benefit of shopkeepers. That's an eminently debatable position.

Ken Munn ● 2346d

Dan, traffic light timing can be changed.

Ken Munn ● 2346d

I have asked councillors several weeks ago about pavement fees and yet still no answer. If venues are going to be forced to use the pavement, fees should be suspended for the time being. Otherwise the existing consultation protocol would remain and thus it would take a minimum of six weeks for any decision to be made. Circulating at the moment are bits and bobs suggesting pavement use will be the way forward. I advocated for the issue to be implemented immediately, a bit like having the pavement extended along TGT. If commerce is being facilitated for some, it should be easily facilitated for all with the same degree of urgency.As to Michael's point about residents living near a shopping street having absolute veto, I can assure you that has been our experience. Years ago there were public benches outside  the shop. Three in the middle of the pavement with several by the raised garden. Overnight all were removed due to resident complaint. Not great for improving the street scene and experience. Then one day, a single new bench arrived and residents came in having a go at me because they thought I had something to do with it. As if it would be bad to have a place to sit. I pointed out the memorial plaque so maybe they should contact the friends and family of the deceased and direct their ire toward them.

David Lesniak ● 2346d

Anita, high street shops are in trouble everywhere, not just Chiswick - including in places outside of London where you can still park.It's not the lack of car parking that is the issue.  It is mainly because of internet shopping where the fixed costs (especially business rates) are much lower.

Al Webber ● 2346d

Don't think anybody is going to dispute that but wouldn't a change at this point be problematic? A pedestrian crossing and traffic movement on CHR needs to be suspended which is probably why the phase is so short. You already have the right turn phase out of TGT and then traffic turning right into TGT. If you add on to that later the cycle way which I think removes the left turn filter lane into TGT this is already going to be a very congested junction.I don't think anyway the lights Annandale Road can be managed dynamically. The phase seems to have remained pretty much constant any time I've had to use this road.

Dan Evans ● 2346d

Francis, as always, it isn't difficult to refute your points."Also want is the source of your claim that retailers increased their revenue?"The Abundance London newsletter - they organised the street closure and polled the businesses before and after."The prospect for achieving overall footfall in Chiswick's commercial area by exclusively encouraging shoppers who walk or cycle is dim. "Why? We are barely scraping the surface of the potential to increase the numbers, certainly by cycling anyway.  There are large residential developments with construction well advanced by the new Brentford stadium and others being discussed in the area.  They aren't going to be driving to Chiswick as they are outside the ULEZ so may be charged and there are very few parking spaces anyway.  Its a long walk but a short cycle to the main shopping areas in CHR."but ultimately the numbers that will come by foot or bike overall is fixed"That makes no sense whatsoever.  Firstly, there will be new residential developments in the area right by the route of C9.  Secondly, there hasn't actually been any meaningful improvement of cycling infrastructure in the area and you are already proclaiming the numbers are fixed."Any significant change in trade overall has to come from those from outside the area most of whom would arrive by car."Given the entire car park outside the George IV only generates at most about 60 people per hour, how much car parking would be required to produce "a significant change" of at least hundreds or thousands of people per hour.  As an American might say "you do the math".Unless you are going to be magicking lots of car parking spaces from somewhere or proposing tarmacing over Turnham Green, then there ain't going to be more car parking in Chiswick. It is the car parking that isn't going to grow, not people walking and cycling."Would you be able to accept that the people who will understand best how this change is affecting business on Turnham Green Terrace are people running businesses on Turnham Green Terrace "Well you would hope so.  However when a survey was done of people shopping on CHR, the figure was 8% arrived by car.  Businesses polled thought it was 20%.  Indeed for others similar polls in London, businesses consistently overestimated the proportion of their customers arriving by car.  This looks like they are guessing rather than actually asking their customers."you have never changed your mind on any subject in the history of this forum"I'm am very happy to change my mind if the facts change (to misquote JM Keynes).  You haven't produced any factual information.

Michael Robinson ● 2346d

"You already have the right turn phase out of TGT and then traffic turning right into TGT."Can anybody else see the time saving opportunity here?

Paul Campbell ● 2346d