Forum Topic

Bike lane construction - Kew r/b

Morning,With building works one of the areas of the economy that is supposed to be opening further, does anyone know if TFL (or LBH?) are going to resume construction of the junction on kew bridge any time soon?Ta.

Rob Reynolds ● 2357d38 Comments

As it is ultimately a TfL funded project I would guess that the contractors are wanting payment up front to proceed with any work.

Dan Evans ● 2357d

The concern would be that no work will be done until a comprehensive funding package is worked out for TfL. The money given so far just covers the revenue shortfall to allow tubes and buses to keep running but doesn't address the issue of projects under construction. It is perhaps relevant that the work at Wellesley Road is going ahead - that is a Hounslow Council project.Once traffic starts to pick up again something will need to be done about the junction as it will be busy even without the abandoned roadworks. Question is - who will pay?

Andrew OSullivan ● 2357d

I understand TfL are restarting work on CW9 as a priority. No dates though. Some staff had been furloughed but are now back in.Wellesley road works are actually a TfL responsibility but LBH have agreed to do them as they are relatively simple and we can move quickly.

Guy Lambert ● 2357d

I do hope they can do all the construction without reducing the pavement space for pedestrians, especially in light of the governments advice to socially distance.

Cath Macartan ● 2357d

Good point Cath. However the die is cast on alterations to the Kew Bridge junction. It will be good to see the stalled work completed so that we can properly assses the impact on all road users. This is a complex and potentially dangerous junction. Thank goodness TfL listened to the objections made to their original plans. The phasing of the traffic lights will be crucial to the success of this part of the project.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2357d

A key design change following the first consultation was the change from "with flow" cycle lanes on both sides to bi-directional lanes on the Chiswick side.  With the "with flow" design TfL said they couldn't provide a segregated bike lane at the bus stop by Kew Bridge station, meaning this would be the only bus stop on the entire route without this.  There was also a "left hook" risk at Lionel Rd S although it looks pretty sure this road will now be kept shut except for access.A bidirectional track avoids those issues and also makes the Wellesley Rd junction really simple for cyclists with no need for bike specific signals.The other design change  was the creation of two southbound lanes on Kew Bridge so all traffic in that direction isn't held up by a bus at the bus stop on the NE corner of the bridge.  That actually increases roadspace on Kew Bridge at the expense of footway space and there were a lot of complains about that.Whether the same design decision would have been made post-Covid, I couldn't say.  Works haven't been started on the bridge itself to create the space for two lanes.

Michael Robinson ● 2357d

Thanks Guy. When do you expect the Wellesley/LBH bit to happen?

Rob Reynolds ● 2357d

"Question is - who will pay?"My guess is school children.They will now be charged for their journeys but wealthy cyclists will not.

David Lesniak ● 2357d

How can you start every day being such a miserable twat?Its no wonder your customer service stinks if this is the mood you wake up in every day.

Tony Smart ● 2357d

Absolutely zero need for your abusive and obnoxious post.As for Customer Service, heaven forbid you ever tried to earn a living in that sector because you'd alienate more customers than shop at Sainsbury's, M&S and Waitrose in Chiswick!

Loraine Pemberton ● 2356d

Is it just my language you disagree with or my justified observation about David?Good game to play in Lockdown. Find a cheery Lesniak early morning post on the Chiswick Forum. Could be a rival to Wheres Waldo if we market it right!

Tony Smart ● 2356d

Cllr Hearn, when you say the die is cast on the Kew Bridge junction work do you mean that TfL has specific funds to complete the work or do you mean that it is so far along that it would be more expensive to return to its original format than complete?If TfL don't have the financial resources to complete the work would the council be allowed to pay for and implement works on a road which is TfL's responsibility?If Hounslow Council are completing the Wellesley Road junction works does that mean that they are doing so on the understanding that the cost will be covered by TfL when they are able or has the expense been switched to the borough?

Andrew OSullivan ● 2356d

Andrew, have no fear,it's magic money which can appear, disappear,be lost and found or diverted, rather like Hounslow spending money on the Barnes footbridge to nowhere conveniently left over from the school expansion budget.Yes, you read it correctly, the school expansion budget.

Adrian Irving ● 2356d

Such creative accounting by local authorities to use the school expansion budget to fund the boathouse and walkway is likely to become more prevalent but I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing as long as there is transparency.This seems to be lacking in what is going on with Cycleway 9 at the moment. Either TfL or the council or both don't think residents deserve to be given a full account of what is actually going on.We can piece together a rough approximation of the situation however. It can be taken for granted that the full project cost of £70million is not sitting in an account somewhere. There are clearly major financial issues otherwise work would have restarted already.If we assume that there is some money left for the project but it is a fraction of the original budget then this section of route by Kew Bridge should be the one that should be concentrated on. As long as the phasing issues mentioned by Cllr Hearn can be dealt with and it doesn't make Kew Green a traffic sink it is the one part of Cycleway 9 that delivers an unambiguous benefit to cyclists with minimal non-financial cost.Even if the money was available for the rest of the route it probably wouldn't be politically acceptable in the current environment. The use of pavement space isn't necessarily the big problem as I hope we won't be talking about social distancing in six months time, it is the hammer blow to retail in King Street and Chiswick High Road that the construction phase would represent which could finish off any shops that managed to survive lockdown. As the segregation of cyclists on the sections from King Street to Chiswick High Road is nowhere near complete and the safety benefits are highly debatable, it would seem sensible to priortise the part of the route where they are not - from Wellesley Road to Kew Bridge.

Paul Corcoran ● 2356d

Oh god, here he goes again, constructing an entire narrative based upon nothing more than speculation. A “piece together”, a  “rough approximation”,  a “clearly” which isn’t clear, an “even if”, a “if we assume”...Paul, this is looks like nothing more than wishful thinking on your part. You don’t want the Cycleway so you then work backwards inventing theories to support this.If you hadn’t noticed, TfL hasn’t restarted work on ANY construction projects other than those deemed safety critical.Temporary barriers have already gone in along the Cycleway 9 route on Hammersmith Rd. Remember, this is something that you proclaimed two weeks ago wouldn’t happen because they wouldn’t reduce road width and they needed traffic orders. Guess what, they reduced road width and they didn’t need traffic orders.As to your claims that safety benefits are “highly debatable”, let’s see your analysis of cyclist casualties and the impact of cycleway 9.

Michael Robinson ● 2356d

It is tortuous. Remember though Mike that Paul really does want Cycleway 9. He is just trying to dampen his natural optimism so as not to be disappointed.

Paul Campbell ● 2356d

Cycle infrastructure is not less but more urgent than before, a matter that is perfectly clear to the Mayor and the Borough councils across London. Central Government and even the local Conservative councillors have woken up to this. Yesterday I cycled part of New Kings Road which a week ago was virtually deserted, but had become gridlocked in mid-afternoon. Unless we support people onto their feet or their bikes, getting round London will become a nightmare, not only for ordinary members of the public, but for those who actually need motorised transport - emergency services, the disabled, large deliveries, buses.TfL staff related to CW9 who were furloughed are either already back at work or will be soon.As to reallocation of part the reserve set aside for potential school expansion:The council have spent hundreds of millions of pounds in the last decade on school expansions and rebuilds. These are projects we are extremely proud of, and the quality of provision across Hounslow has improved as a result, reflected in the Borough's outstanding educational standards. The council allocated a significant amount of money to the Schools Expansion budget some while ago and this money was based on projections and possible future need. We created a large Schools Expansion Budget when the Government’s Building Schools for the Future Programme ceased which was to manage the increasing pressure on our schools places that an increasing population would bring.  We have made expansions in many schools and also supported the establishment of new schools. Despite a significant increase in the school population at the beginning of the last decade (hence the need of all the expansions) this has levelled off in recent years.  As we come towards the end of that programme, it is clear that not all monies will be spent and the remainder of the capital budget (£5.5m) was therefore no longer required given that the population growth was not as high as predicted. It is important to note no school expansions were postponed. This money was not diverted from any ‘actual’ projects as there are no further expansions needed currently. Perhaps Adrian thinks we should keep this money set aside in perpetuity. I beg to differ.As to Wellesley Road/Stile Hall Gardens closures: I believe TfL will reimburse the council for the modest costs of these interventions.

Guy Lambert ● 2355d

Thanks for the insights Guy. This will all be a great relief to Paul and his friends as they have been finding it hard to be optimistic and have been very concerned that there might not be sufficient funding or political will to install safe cycle infrastructure.

Paul Campbell ● 2355d

Thank you Guy. Sense and sensibility, as opposed to pride and prejudice.

Ken Munn ● 2355d

Seems like a perfectly rational and practical suggestion for a way forward to me. 

Kevin Howard ● 2355d

"it is the hammer blow to retail in King Street and Chiswick High Road that the construction phase would represent which could finish off any shops that managed to survive lockdown"The next swing of the hammer comes tomorrow, 25 May, when gas works commence on CHR for the duration of the summer. CS9 construction would be the third.

David Lesniak ● 2355d

Thanks as ever, Tony, for your "attempt" at cancelling me.The fact remains:School children are now required to pay for using TfL infrastructure.Wealthy cyclists steadfastly refuse to do the same.The definition of depraved.Thanks for trying though.

David Lesniak ● 2355d

Happy Sunday everyone.

Tony Smart ● 2355d

David - have the works on Chiswick High Road commenced? There seems to be no information about them anywhere.This lack of transparency seems to be becoming even more prevalent. It is not unreasonable for residents to expect some sort of update about what is going on. Nobody will blame TfL and the Council if projects have to scrapped or mothballed because of lack of funds at this point.I don't think it is right to see TfL suspending all construction projects as an encouraging sign. Their financial position remains precarious and Hounslow definitely should not be underwriting the cost of projects they are unable to pay for. If TfL actually do have funds for particular projects including CS9 they should crack on - there is nothing in current government guidelines to stop them.

Paul Corcoran ● 2352d

Silly comment Guy.Of course I don't think that.What I do think is this money could be put to far better use than a bridge to nowhere.Or maybe you can confirm that there are no much more important issues that the multi millions could be used for?

Adrian Irving ● 2352d

Have you seen that they have installed temporary segregation now on King St? Lunacy for those who cannot fathom the logic of "taking road space" and a joyous sight to behold for those of us who agree with the government, the Mayor, the Borough and the local Councillors that provision for active travel is a necessity during the present circumstances.

Paul Campbell ● 2352d

Paul,Perhaps your concerns would be best addressed to TfL. I doubt that they read CW4.

Ken Munn ● 2352d

There is at keast one TfL employee who regularly contributes to this forum. However, it is likely that very few people in the organisation know exactly what is going on there at the moment.As for the temporary provision being made they are very welcome and although perhaps they have been brought in too late. As far as I can see the ones on King Street seem to be on bus lanes - if that is correct I doubt they will remain for long after traffic starts to return to more normal levels.

Paul Corcoran ● 2352d

The traffic is well on its way to returning to normal and that is why the bus lane has been devoted to bikes. Your efforts to dampen your natural optimism are impressive. Especially how they involved ignoring all of the guidance that has been released by the government, Mayor, TfL, LBH&F and LBH and the Chiswick Councillors that we need these measures in order to avoid choking our streets with traffic.Get a bit more Tigger in you Eeyore.

Paul Campbell ● 2352d

Rob - signage spotted.  Not sure if it would be legible by Dominic Cummings but definitely there,No access to S Circular from Wellesley Rd and Stile Hall Gdns from 4 June.

Michael Robinson ● 2352d

Gasworks have yet to begin. No evidence of staging either. The bank holiday probably isn't helping with scheduling.Yesterday on King Street about 5:30pm I watched a cyclist headed east. Not in the original cycle lane. Not in the adjacent temporary cycle lane. But in the severely reduced carriageway. So he was going against traffic flow barely able to squeeze between the plastic barriers and a bus when there now exist two cycle lanes for his use.Joyous for sure.And then we had the pedestrians crossing King Street trying to hurdle over the barriers into the cycle lane.I think TfL owes the general public some signage alerting people to new patterns and how to wait/cross for buses, etc.

David Lesniak ● 2352d

There is no guidance from any public body that recommends the closure of bus lanes to give them over to cycling. After the deaths of 34 drivers there will be a great deal of reluctance to delay buses and increase overcrowding on them so the bus lane would be restored as soon as the bus company or TfL asks for it back. Traffic is nowhere near normal at this stage so the lane may survive a few weeks yet.

Dan Evans ● 2352d

Ha.

Janice Evans ● 2352d

Let's get a spread bet going Dan.

Paul Campbell ● 2352d

"There is no guidance from any public body that recommends the closure of bus lanes to give them over to cycling."Equally, there is no guidance saying all bus lanes must be kept open.  TfL have reset the previously agreed funding provided to boroughs (with some exceptions where there are already sunk costs from projects already started) and outlined funding for the rest of this financial year and 20/21.  This funding was part of the recent agreement between government and TfL.  Boroughs will be filling in their applications for this funding as we speak."This funding will be used for the following:• Delivery of strategic cycle routes using temporary materials• Reallocation of road space where crowding is an issue, such as town centres, interchanges and key hubs• Low traffic neighbourhoods on borough roads to give space and security for local walking and cycling, and an enhanced ability to maintain social distancing. This also reflects views about enhanced local quality of life from reduced motor traffic during the lock down"For the money the boroughs get (£43M for all of them), that is what it will be spent on.  I don't know if each borough will get more or less the same or if it will be awarded based upon the quality of submissions for those types of projects.

Michael Robinson ● 2352d

Thanks Michael. Where did you see it?

Rob Reynolds ● 2352d

Stile Hall Gardens and I've been told there is another sign near CHR/Acton Lane.

Michael Robinson ● 2352d

Yes. seen them now along Wellesley. Not sure the conform to MOT standard!

Rob Reynolds ● 2352d