Forum Topic

Noisy restaurant fridge motor, running all night

Hi all,Since 4 weeks I have been fighting with the council and Rendezvous Restaurant to get the latter to stop running a fridge motor outside all night. My wife is pregnant and finds it, as it is, difficult to fall asleep, but with that noise is close to impossible. We have been in touch with Councillor Joanna Biddolph (super nice lady) and Councillor John Todd (also, very kindly came to witness the noise himself within one hour after I contacted him). Both recognise that it is a problem and are trying to help. If things don't improve soon, I am planning to take legal action against both, the council and Rendezvous, but I am finding it difficult to source the planning application that has allowed Rendezvous to place that fridge machine outside without sound isolation. I suspect it has been put there illegally as some applications which I have found for that site (looking online at the planning website) specifically mention provisions to stop any noisy equipment or anything adding to the normal background noise.I have emailed the planning committee last week. The info on their website says they would respond within 10 working days. Have any of you had any experience with this?Also, the environmental pollution team are useless.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2361d34 Comments

Hi DritanI'm sending you a PM.Regards, Loraine

Loraine Pemberton ● 2361d

Dritan,I suspect Loraine has said this in her PM, but in the first instance you should be contacting the Planning Enforcement Team at LBH.A quick search of LBH's website suggests that there haven't been any recent applications relating to these premises.  Furthermore, when I look at the latest (April 2019) Streetview imagery showing the rear of the premises, there doesn't appear to be any external plant or associated equipment like condenser units or air con units, which suggests that the equipment which is causing you the problems has been erected at some point within the last year.So, it's a reasonable conclusion that the equipment has been put there without planning permission and is therefore likely to be unauthorised (not illegal I should stress - putting something up that requires planning permission but hasn't got it is not illegal).Quite frankly emailing the planning committee is a waste of time, and the Pollution team shouldn't be your first port of call as it the equipment itself is there without the benefit of planning permission then it's a matter for the planning enforcement team.So rather than contacting local Councillors and/or ranting on here about taking legal action (which is a tad OTT when your efforts seem to have been misdirected) you should be contacting the Planning Enforcement Team so that they can undertake an investigation etc.

Adam Beamish ● 2361d

Hi AdamI provided the email for Steven Maunders of Environmental team at LBH who's responsible for Chiswick and a very efficient at his job.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2361d

Didn't you post a couple of months ago that you were moving into that block knowing that there would be noise issues?

Carl Wynne ● 2361d

Hi Adam,Thank you very much for your advice, and excuse my ranting. I am having to learn how to approach these things, thankfully so far I haven't had a need to. You are right, maybe legal action is a bit over the top at this time. Four weeks with improper sleep while trying to support e pregnant partner who on top of that, is barely sleeping too, takes the toll. I initially treated it as a noise problem, contacted the restaurant and hope that I would be able to solve the issue with them directly. I tried to explain what the issue was and the distress it was causing, I even invited them to come and experience it from my house.When it failed, then I started to look into planning applications, legal action, complain stages - I spent hours searching and looking at documentation. Eventually, I came onto a planning application document at the council's website (since removed) which showed that there was no planning for that motor. I have been trying to figure out with the planning committee whether there is some other application which I may have missed during my search.Thankfully, I have already contacted the Planing Enforcement Team about 8 days ago and I think they are looking into it - although it is hard to tell as they haven't informed me that they are.Again, thank you for the advice.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2361d

Thank you so much Loraine, I just got to your email.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2361d

Yes, you are correct. The noise issues that were being discussed here at the time did not bother me that much. I understand that it is a restaurant and it has to run its business. A couple of nights a week, having guests staying later or something similar, I can tolerate that. Having a motor running all night, 24/7, that is a whole different ball game. In any case, I was already committed at the time and couldn't back out without incurring a substantial financial cost.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2361d

Check this out, is this normal?https://youtu.be/lB82Do36qS4

Dritan Nikolla ● 2349d

Can you give us some context as to what we're hearing in the clip, please, Dritan?

Gordon McDonald ● 2348d

My sympathies are with you. That is the kind of noise which drives me nuts - some may say even nuttier than ever. Seriously, it's awful and unacceptable and I hope you get somewhere with your complaint.

Anne England ● 2348d

Nothing worse for keeping you awake at night, I had a noisy Fridge/F whichhad to go before its time.

Janice Evans ● 2348d

Hi Mr McDonald,This is an ongoing noise issue I am having with the Rendezvous restaurant. They have a fridge motor that makes a horrendous noise 24/7. The clip is a short recording of that from my bedroom window at 1am. I am finding it impossible to get the council to take action. I can say this, if what I have here becomes acceptable standard for noise by the council, everyone should be extremely aware if they are faced with the prospect of some similar development close to their home. Cheers,Dritan

Dritan Nikolla ● 2347d

Thank you so much Mrs England. It is driving is nuts too. I just do not understand why the council is failing to enforce their regulations! All they have to do is ensure the motor is isolated properly for noise, as it should be. I will not leave any stone unturned until this is solved for sure. This cannot become an acceptable standard for anyone.Cheers,Dritan

Dritan Nikolla ● 2347d

I am actually developing Tinnitus because of it, I have booked an appointment next week because now my ears keep ringing even after the noise stops - never had this issue before. There is a point right before you get to sleep, hypnagogia is called, where the sounds amplify. Most people have experienced this if they have left the water tap dripping. When you get to hypnagogic state, the gentle drip starts to sound more like drums. Something similar happens with the fridge noise, at that point the experience of noise is more like trying to sleep in a busy factory. It is horrendous.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2347d

What have the restaurant said? Presume this is a fairly new "outside" fridge...but if I remember rightly they also have fridges in the basement. Surely in the current situation of Covid they dont need this "extra" fridge running?Any complaint from near neighbours in Prebend Gardens?

Nick Jenkins ● 2347d

Dritan - I would suggest that now is the time to get back in contact with your local councillors.  They should be able to push officers in the planning enforcement area to start taking action.

Phil Kay ● 2347d

Might be worth talking to a solicitor too.

Rob Reynolds ● 2347d

Hi Mr Jenkins,Yes, I spoke to one of them (since the emails went unanswered. They couldn't be more dismissive if they tried. Behind the smiles (I've actually been at the restaurant once, as a customer), they are pretty nasty people.I have spoken to our neighbour at Prebend Gardens, she hears it too, but a bit less as she doesn't have many windows facing the machine, whereas for me there is no escape as every single window at the flat faces the damned thing.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2347d

Hi Mr Kay,Thank you for that. The councillors have actually been a pleasant surprise. Since I am new in the area I didn't know who my councillor was so I contacted Councillor Biddolph, a really really lovely person. Then I got in touch with our local councillor, Todd. Within half an hour calling him, he called me back and was underneath my window. He saw the issue, filmed it even and has been helping me out with the planning enforcement. Last Wednesday I got an email from the planning enforcement team saying "Hi DritanThis matter has been passed to our Community Enforcement team who will be in touch with you."I am not sure what that means but I am hoping against hope they will do something before we are driven mad.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2347d

Hi Mr Raynolds,I have got in touch with one firm, Duncan and Lewis. They told me that I need to exhaust the council's complaint stages first. According to them I will have a case against the restaurant and the Council if they fail to address it (they saw what the issue was themselves). I am preparing for that, the issue I have at the moment is that to get to the next stage of the complaint in the council, I have to get a clear answer from the first stage, and they have been dragging their feet for two months. I am also hiring a professional company to install some professional equipment in my flat to record the evidence for a month. They will come on the 7th of June, apparently they are super busy.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2347d

Maybe it's time for something to accidentally go wrong with this compressor one dark night, possibly involving a crowbar and insulated boltcroppers.

Peter Evans ● 2347d

Typically there would be an exterior isolator. A simple turn of the dial should do it.

David Lesniak ● 2346d

Realistically, if the owners/occupiers of the premises don't take steps to resolve any breach of planning control, any formal action the Council might take under planning legislation is likely to take months.Whilst I appreciate you might think differently, this type of breach of planning wouldn't be one which a Council would issue a 'stop' notice in respect of under planning legislation.  So if the owner/occupiers declined to take any remedial action following the initial investigation by the Planning Enforcement Team (and standard practice is for a Council to request such action to be taken within 28 days) the Council would then have to decide the expediency of taking enforcement action with a view to serving an enforcement notice.  Under planning legislation an enforcement notice cannot come into effect for at least 28 days after being served, and a recipient of the notice must be given a period of at least 28 days once the notice takes effect to remedy the breach.So in the very best scenario, if the owner/occupier didn't take any remedial action over the coming weeks, you are still looking at an absolute minimum of 2 months (and quite probably longer) for the planning enforcement powers available to the Council to yield a result.From an Environmental Protection perspective (which, unlike planning, isn't my specialism), it all comes down to whether the noise is a statutory nuisance and therefore whether an abatement notice can be pursued.  As Loraine has suggested I know Steve Maunders (and others) within LBH's Environmental Health team and I'm sure they can advise accordingly.  Essentially the statutory nuisance route is the best route to be pursued, along with any attempt to engage proactively and directly with the owner/occupiers of the restaurant (which I note you've tried without success).But I do need to stress that you shouldn't hope or expect for a quick resolution via the planning enforcement route, it could happen if the owner/occupier immediately takes remedial action, but if they don't the mechanisms available to the Council under planning enforcement legislation are slow (and that's the fault of the legislation, not the Council).Hence you really would be wasting time and money pursuing any kind of legal action against the Council, indeed the only action you could pursue would be, having exhausted the Council's internal complaint procedures, a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman for maladministration, but it's way too early for that.

Adam Beamish ● 2346d

Meanwhile, I hope everybody reading this will boycott the Rendezvous restaurant and/or have a word with the management about this matter. Maybe their attention could be drawn to this thread which might speed remedial action.I sympathise greatly with the OP for reasons too long and tedious to go into but such an ongoing drone is enough to drive anybody crazy within a short period of time and has to be totally unacceptable.Actually, not the instance referred to above, but this reminds me of when one of the 'rogue' boats moored at Waterman's Park had a generator going on the top deck. It totally put paid to any enjoyment of the park, quite apart from the fact that the boat (wreck) shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Anne England ● 2346d

Hi Mr Beamish,Thank you very much for your extremely useful advice, much much appreciated. In part, that is what I am trying to do too. The one thing I am not clear about is, how can I prove privately that the noise here is statutory noise? I am pretty sure it is since some rudimentary measurements that I made, using paid apps, suggest without a doubt that the criteria is reached and surpassed. I mentioned earlier, I have contacted a company which seems to specialise on this kind of thing to provide Grade 1 they call it, equipment to measure noise. I have tentatively booked them for next Monday, but I have a call scheduled towards the end of this week. I want to make sure the evidence they will provide can stand in court, but I am not sure what to look for to make sure that it is. At this point I have a lawyer too, but I don't want to involve them yet as the costs can accumulate very quickly. Eventually, I will have no choice but to involve them and just bear the costs whatever they may be.Also, I am struggling to get the complaint moving through the stages. Mr Maunders surfaces once every two weeks and then very quickly submerges not be seen again until after a few more weeks. This means that I am being put on hold as "things are being assessed", so I cannot move to the next stage of the complaint - which is presenting my case in front of three councillors. Having seen the councillors , a few of them, over the past two months, I am very very hopeful they can actually understand the issue and intervene to help me solve it.Thank you so much again,Dritan

Dritan Nikolla ● 2346d

I am not sure what an exterior isolator is?

Dritan Nikolla ● 2346d

Late at night when that thing is going, I have thought of that too more than once :). However, I do believe in rules and I am pretty sure I am not the only one with issues like this. The council should learn to respect people's right to live in peace in their homes

Dritan Nikolla ● 2346d

Dritan,Environment Protection isn't my specialism, but Section 79 of the Environmental Protection Act defines a statutory nuisance as 'any premises in such a state as to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance', and goes on to clarify that this includes noise emitted from a premises.'Prejudicial to health' is defined as 'injurious, or likely to cause injury, to health.'It's unusual, in my experience (and whilst I'm not an expert in these matter when I worked in planning enforcement at Councils I regularly liaised with Environmental Health Officers and at Hounslow spend several years sat in the same part of the offices as the EHO's) for a resident to go to the extreme of commissioning a private company.  Ultimately that company is only going to be able to record and assess the sound levels, but as they aren't the regulatory authority they can't determine whether it is or it isn't a statutory nuisance.  Which in turn would, I suspect, undermine any legal action you might be thinking of taking.Usually when I get planning permission for restaurants and takeaways there's a condition imposed requiring the noise of the plant to be a specific level (typically 5 db) below the background noise level.  Obviously as the plant is already operational it's hard to assess what the background noise level is without that plant (although to be honest whilst I could clearly hear the plant on your video there did also seem to be considerable background noise from traffic movements, people talking etc).Also, and this isn't intended as a criticism of Councillors, but they are not the experts or indeed even the decision makers in terms of what is or isn't a statutory nuisance.  That's the job of the Officers, although of course the Councillors can and will pursue those Officers on your behalf.My only advice at this stage would be to keep chasing up the EHO and keep your Councillors in the loop, whether you want to pursue an independent noise survey or legal action is entirely up to you, but to me such steps are premature, are not going to resolve matters any quicker, but are to incur significant expense for you without any recourse.

Adam Beamish ● 2346d

Thank a lot Mr Beamish, I really appreciate your advice. I am 100% sure this constitutes statutory noise. The video is not a perfect example, it just shows the noise and I wanted to gauge independent opinions to make sure it's not just me. But at night, when this noise really becomes an issue, there is hardly a peep, cars or otherwise, in Prebend Gardens. That was the main reason I was attracted to the property about. Obviously, I failed to appreciate other factors and I am now paying the price for that now. P.S.I contacted Councillor Todd. As always, he promptly responded. I am super-impressed because in K&C borough, where I lived previously, councillors were very slow to respond to anything.

Dritan Nikolla ● 2346d

I could not agree more and would reciprocate in a heartbeat should anyone have noise issues and I can do something about it.Thank you

Dritan Nikolla ● 2346d

An isolator is pretty much an on/off switch. Restaurant fridges are in two parts. One in the walk-in fridge and the other outside. If the system needs servicing the isolator would be activated to stop power to the unit. Exact same as the appliances in your kitchen. Depending on weather and use, these systems can be put into overdrive so the motors will either grind on or shut off. Problems also arise when the coolant isn't topped up.Exterior isolators tend to be white plastic boxes with a red dial within a yellow ring.

David Lesniak ● 2345d

This was this morning at 4:30 am: https://youtu.be/OULeNgvXwFY

Dritan Nikolla ● 2345d

I'd agree that it sounds sufficiently disruptive to constitute a statutory nuisance, but as I mentioned yesterday ultimately that is a decision that only the local authority can make.As I've said from the outset realistically, be it under the Environmental Protection legislation or the planning regulations, if the owner/tenant of the restaurant isn't willing to remedy the situation then unfortunately it will drag on for some time.I'd expect the Council's investigation to take several weeks, as ususlly the  Council would give the iowner/tenant an opportunity to voluntarily remedy the situation within a reasonable timescale before serving an abatement notice.  If that doesn't happen an abatement notice is then served, which has to specify what needs to be done to remedy the problem and the timescale for that remedial action to be taken, and only if the notice isn't complied with can the Council then commence court action as at that point a criminal offence is taking place.  A recipient of an abatement notice also has 21 days, from receiving such a notice, to appeal that notice by way of the Magistrates Court.As I keep saying, and whilst I can totally understand the annoyance and disturbance this is causing you, I really think you are throwing money away involving private acoustic consultants and solicitors at this stage in the process as in my view it is premature, but of course that's purely my own view/advice.

Adam Beamish ● 2345d

Hi Mr Beamish,I am going to follow your advice on this. I think you have more experience than me and have been giving me some really helpful information - thank you.I will update as I hear more.Cheers and thank you,Dritan

Dritan Nikolla ● 2345d