Forum Topic

School for youngsters

I have grandchildren- I am interested what parents think for 5 year olds to begin school at the beginning of June?I personally am afraid for them.

Helen Bamberger ● 2363d58 Comments

I am sorry but listening to the 'update' this afternoon felt as though I was hearing a sermon !!

Helen Bamberger ● 2363d

When you say begin school do you mean starting school for the first time ever or returning after lockdown?

Stewart Jones ● 2363d

Returning after lockdown

Helen Bamberger ● 2363d

I’d be concerned. Social distancing cannot happen in a Reception classroom (or in most primary classes) I would be inclined to keep them off until September. I recognise that schools have to reopen at sometime. Schools closed when the infection rate and death rate were much lower than they are now. It’s a hard one for parents. Private schools are mostly  not reopening until September. I think that to send pupils back to school for a six week period or less before the summer holidays is a risky strategy but some people think it’s a risk worth taking.

Stewart Jones ● 2363d

I agree with you Stewart- how on earth can you keep young children away from other youngsters - it will make them even more stressed as obviously they are aware that things are not normal..

Helen Bamberger ● 2363d

As an aside, in the present circumstances I don't see what's sacrosanct about the school summer holidays. Nobody's going anywhere and there are no fields to plough, and teachers are paid anyway, so schools could open in July or August if necessary. They don't have to wait until September.

Peter Evans ● 2363d

All the children across the country will have missed the same amount of time. So to say this cohort are going to be disadvantaged hardly seems to make sense. If Easter holidays and summer holidays are subtracted, it doesn’t seem like a vast amount of time lost. Some children will have been better home schooled than others, but maybe some children will have learned a lot over this time about the wider world and, perhaps, where their own interests take them.

Vivienne Cox ● 2363d

Yes that is an aside and possibly worthy of another thread if you feel so inclined. But the post is about the immediate proposals and the concerns of  parents and grandparents sending children to potentially unsafe environments in June.

Stewart Jones ● 2363d

They are losing the socialising.  Teachers ARE working now sending out work for their classes and suggesting online websites and TV programmes and phoning around their parents and marking work - AND looking after their own children.  Those who are worried about the children who aren't doing any work and who need extra support should perhaps be working with the teachers to help them and those children and not jeopardising everyone's health.The teachers may not be able to go back anyway without the back up they would normally have for their own children.  No grandparents and shared childcare to help. 

Philippa Bond ● 2363d

They may not open full time because of needing to reduce the size of classes.  Each school is different and they have to try and work out how they can best make it work.  Of course if parents choose not to send their children back that may change their calculations.It might be better to concentrate on those who are in more need of somewhere to work, just as they are doing now.

Philippa Bond ● 2363d

Educationally it makes little sense to prioritise reception and year 1. Most countries start school at 6 some at 7. In Europe only the UK and Ireland start school at a younger age, a policy that has long been viewed as counterproductive. And please some explain how it is not safe to visit friends or family at home in even hang out in a group in the open air but it is safe to be in a room for several hours a day 5 days a week with 15 others and without any masks or screens.

David Turner ● 2363d

It's been very noticeable that the most outspoken proponents (apart from the government) for getting children back into school, have been the leaders of various Academies.  Why would this be?

Micki Hawkes ● 2363d

I doubt that those leaders will themselves be in the classroom for any length of time.

David Turner ● 2363d

We have to remember that children are not the target host for covid -19 which is blessing. Schools have opened throughout the lockdown for key workers children. Opening back up from a lockdown was always going to be a challenge. If children are living with grandparents or anyone with underlying health conditions then special arrangements need to be in place. To be fair this will be a minority. Let’s the children go back to school in a measured way.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2363d

Someone who saw my query and who I know, has just called me to say that they think academies are paid by the number of children in school, so that may be a reason they're so keen to get them back in.  I don't know, but just noticed the reaction of their leaders. 

Micki Hawkes ● 2362d

Target host? Can you explain that?Also how is it ok for 15 children (including teenagers in years 10 and 12 though they weren’t the focus of this thread) and an adult to be enclosed in a room together when in any other circumstances such a gathering would be prohibited and indeed condemned as putting lives at risk?

David Turner ● 2362d

Thank god none of my children will be sending their children back to school yet

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

JT > "We have to remember that children are not the target host for covid -19 which is blessing."Eh?

John Whitworth ● 2362d

Face reality, covid is here to stay, over 80% of the population have no or mild symptoms we can’t stay in lockdown forever clearly for some of you when will the time be right? There is no right time until we have a vaccine. Hey it’s your choice children need education.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Yes they do but is it safe from the beginning of June? I don’t think so-

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

Far too early- why not make it in September when we will have a far better understanding of whether there will be a second strike or not- with young children this , in my view, makes sense - a month in school in June won’t make any difference in their learnings- and will keep them and their parents in a safer place.

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

Children, from the Covid data, are generally less if at all affected by the virus in the same way adults are horrendously attacked by this strange Covid-19 SARS pathogen with its capacity to be horridly lethal to some and for a while during recovery scarily debilitating to others – or not at all and a mere sniffle to the lucky. Children, because it was known early on in China that the young appeared oddly unaffected, were a demographic that should have from the outset been an obvious target to be wary of as potential carriers. But, that is all about testing and protection, which, as we know has been and remains a medical farce in the UK. Schools will be a nest for the virus to manifest its plan of annihilation in a second more devastating wave of death as pandemics have proven with mortality counts in the past. Many schools are staffed by teachers of an age that the virus has potential to target and kill on a whim. Then there’s the recent data where the virus affects ethnic demographic bodies more freely. And, it will be children's teachers of varied ethnicities assisted by an indifferent child-carrying virus that will kill the children's teachers in a second wave.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2362d

David apologies - a virus requires a host to thrive and spread.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Bobby that is not what the medical and scientific expert are saying. Given the spread across the world the evidence appears similar in all countries children are significantly less likely to catch it and if they do shows no or mild symptoms. Experts also state that teachers are younger so again not in a vulnerable group. Obviously if a teacher is in a vulnerable group they should be protected.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

I agree we can’t stay in lockdown forever. But the proposals make no sense to me for reasons I’ve stated before. It’s wrong for government to, on the one hand, tell us an activity (groups in a room) is wrong and puts lives at risk and on the other other hand, is safe. I don’t like being treated like an idiot.Children do need educating but prioritising 4, 5 and 6 year olds seems bizarre given that they are the very children whose education is least impacted by not going to school. After all in most countries these children wouldn’t have even started school.

David Turner ● 2362d

Remember - If we are sending your child back to school you could be sending them back to kill our teachers.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2362d

Agreed with all you have said David- I was a youngster in Sweden and started school all those years ago  as all the children did  at 7 years old.I wonder why the Gov. think that 5 year olds need to go back - why put them, the teachers, and the parents at this group at risk especially as social distancing will be nearly impossible

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

The government’s concern suddenly for children’s education is to be welcomed on one level, although  not quite reflected in the chronic underfunding of schools in the last five years. I hope the find time also to address the record numbers of children  who live in povertyIf a teacher gets the virus then presumably the whole class and their families will have to self isolate for the appropriate time.

Stewart Jones ● 2362d

You have to strike a balance somewhere, each school will make their own preparations. The government is simple providing a broad platform for schools to restart given the advice from the experts of easing the lockdown. Then all the relevant authorities step in like Health & Safety etc, the government is not going to tell us as individuals how to restart our lives but to provide guidance. That’s the difference between China and the U.K. ha!

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Bobbie please stop that is scaremongering and serves no useful purpose, people are scared enough.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

David I am guessing you are not 5 or 6 😉😉😉 you are probably in a vulnerable group 😉 so you don’t need to go back to school 😂😂😂

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Only 'saying as it is'. We can't go around 'being afraid' that be must not 'scare' other people. It's like telling a ghost "Stop being so scary please - you're frightening every one" 😊

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2362d

I am really interested to know Jayne why you are so happy to have them return so early-  just interested!🤗

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

There are cases of children getting something similar to toxic shock syndrome or Kawasaki disease.https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-in-children-and-adolescents-with-covid-19It takes time to sort out buildings so that nobody needs to touch doors or door handles and to organise systems so that only one person goes into a closed room with a bank of lavatory cubicles, and other alterations that need to be made.Don't forget to flush the loo with the lid down!

Philippa Bond ● 2362d

Reference to killing teachers is scaremongering, no one would make that decision. Do you know how many teachers who have kept working in schools has been killed by a child attending?

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

The early years are very important to children’s learning and it’s good for them to socialise and have a routine. All the evidence across all countries  shows children show no or mild symptoms. I also believe teachers are smart people who will ensure guidelines are followed. Totally understand vulnerable and over 65’s need to be more vigilant but we can’t put that fear on our children.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Your reply really sounds like a government reply- I just asked why you think returning 5 year olds would benefit them or the teachers , and parents - only interested as I think the government will be making a huge mistake.Older children are another issue but even so September sounds so much better as we will know by then a little more about second spikes etc...

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

😂😂😂😂 I don’t work for the government just my opinion 😉😉

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Ok Jayne - we all have our own opinions !!!😍

Helen Bamberger ● 2362d

My opinion is formed by the data with no spin or political bias or personal fear

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

Just make sure you keep choosing the data that confirms your political bias. And ignore posts that show your errors. And all will be fine because Johnson has said so and to admit  any fault in the dear leader and his minions would be impossible.

Stewart Jones ● 2362d

Stewart I follow the scientific data nothing to do with government, you have to stop trying to score political points. I am also very lucky to have some pals who are senior medics and I do listen to them as well. I am intelligent enough to decipher the difference between political point scoring and the facts. Clearly you are only interested in scoring political points. Covid is a serious virus not a political football.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2362d

I am not interested scoring political points necessarily. You have decided that any criticism is political point scoring and therefore you just dismiss any criticism of the government as just that. You have stated from the outset that whatever Johnson has done and is doing is fine by you and the data that you select supports that view. So don’t please lecture anyone on their views when your biased viewpoint has been clearly stated from the start.perhaps you have read the article in the BMJ today which is scathing about the handling of the crisis. Or perhaps not. I imagine not.Today on this thread you have been shown to have misunderstood what a pandemic is and the governance around Cygnus. Yet you blithely ignore that and say that you only firm your views on data.You  have to try and stop blindly supporting the handling of this crisis without question. Covid is a serious virus and not a political football after all.

Stewart Jones ● 2362d

Of course, we are engaging with the forcibly, political arrangement of 'education' as a must of law are we not? Otherwise, home schooling for many circumspect self-contained families is a lawful option is it not? During 'Covid's lockdown' innovations of learning have blossomed via online portals showering educational school-like knowledge have they not? Covid has taught us that schools can be done away with - cant't they?

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2362d

No, they are necessary so that workers can go back to work! Oh yes and I suppose they are also there to educate children.https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/16/england-plans-to-send-the-wrong-children-back-to-school-at-the-wrong-time?

Philippa Bond ● 2362d

Jayne is lucky indeed to have so many pals who are senior medics. Who would have thought? Anyway, to go back to the original topic: the issues of classes for young children returning to school have, very roughly, been addressed but what about drop off and pick up? How does a school with very limited access allow parents/carers, very likely with younger children, to drop off and pick up their children while keeping a safe distance? And those children, who apparently may not present symptoms but may carry the virus, may have parents who work in care or the NHS, may have household members who are at risk, or may themselves be at risk. I have no confidence that this has been thought through. I do agree we should not be afraid but I’d like the  government to present better arguments.

Beryl Wall ● 2362d

They would be in some kind of kindergarten setting in countries like Sweden.  It's very important for their development that the socialise with other children.You can argue that other year groups should be prioritised, but I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer to that.  It does make sense to start with primary children though.  They generally walk to school.  With secondary age children, they will be getting buses and mixing on the buses.The other thing to remember is that the peak of deaths outside of care homes was on 8th April.  Given the lag between infections and deaths, that means the peak of infections was a week or so before the lockdown - while schools were still open.  Opening up primary schools to less than half of their children is not going to cause a "second wave".

Al Webber ● 2362d

So we’re being advised not to go on public transport but schools should open. What about the teachers who got to school on public transport? What’s the data on that then?

Stewart Jones ● 2361d

My son is a teacher. He tells me that the guidance they have been sent keeps reiterating “teachers will know best what to do” in the various scenarios. In other words, if it goes wrong, it’s your fault.

Vivienne Cox ● 2361d

Teachers are told not to wear PPE in schools.  Yet we are all told to wear some on buses and in shops.  How do these children get to school - do they just beam in?  There is also the problem of teachers actually being available to teach now without more backup and testing - they just may not be able to get childcare for their own children. Don't you remember John Gummer telling everyone that beef was safe and giving his daughter a beefburger for the cameras?   

Philippa Bond ● 2360d

Agreed Philippa - with all the double messages we are being told- would anyone trust sending small children back to school in under 2 weeks- I for one pity the teachers and mothers for this decision..let’s just hope they are not given malaria drugs!!!

Helen Bamberger ● 2360d

I make no comment on other valid points BUT"Don't you remember John Gummer telling everyone that beef was safe and giving his daughter a beefburger for the cameras?"Nuffink happened to his daughter, so why mention it?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2360d

Let's wait and see when the Tories sets up 'the killing classes' in our Covid ravaged schools. OOOooo EErrr!

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2360d

Cordelia as I remember didn't eat it and they were lucky.  Others weren't and died from CJD.  Beef was taken off school menus.More important is to chase up and find out what has happened to those children who have not logged onto the school websites or not been in touch with teachers over the work being set.

Philippa Bond ● 2360d

The teachers are being put under pressure just like the nurses are to go back go work too soon because there is a shortage of staff.  They all need to feel and to be safe.

Philippa Bond ● 2360d

An aspect of old people's Care Homes was the coming and going of casual agency staff that was noted as possible carriers of Covid into the care homes. There is bound to be the same aspect of 'carrying into schools' by agency teachers casually filling places of full-time teachers temporarily off sick or on newborn leave or in Covid quarantine.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2360d

I again personally feel that each mother or teacher should make up their minds- I just hope the government for once will make the right decision

Helen Bamberger ● 2359d

Sorry- I meant their own minds!

Helen Bamberger ● 2359d