Forum Topic

£2bn for 'once in a generation change' to transport

Hallelujah at last some good news.https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/09/government-says-doctors-will-prescribe-cycling-make-people-fitter-12679108/

Hans Lund-Sorensen ● 2370d66 Comments

It is huge. I never thought I would see any UK government let alone a Conservative one push such a far-reaching pro-cycling policy agenda in my lifetime. It is the most rational thing they have done since the election. The benefits to public health and the environment will be massive. I am looking forward to seeing our local Councillors put their shoulder behind the wheel over the next few weeks and months to support the speedy implementation of new measures in Chiswick.Thank you to all the Conservative Party members who voted for Johnson to be their leader and the Northern Brexiteers who gave him a 5 year mandate to bring in Gilligan and put on steroids what they began in the Mayor’s office. Great to hear Shapps slap down the inevitable “but not everybody can cycle” argument from the ITV journalist as well.

Paul Campbell ● 2370d

PC > "It is huge."I fear that it is today's dead cat distraction.Sorry to be so negative.

John Whitworth ● 2370d

HMG’s new statutory guidance means it can take control of highways powers from Councils that don’t give space for walking and cycling. Also bike lanes can go in for 18 months with 7 days notice. No consultation. No petitions. No dilly dallying. RBKC and City of Westminster will be praying you are right John.  As will quite a few people on this forum.

Paul Campbell ● 2370d

What will happen in winter and during bad weather when bicycles aren't a good idea?  People crammed into reduced public transport?  Cars jamming the streets?  Businesses suffering because their staff can't get to work?  It's only appealing today because the weather's so beautiful.

Viv Griffiths ● 2370d

I suspect the government has to fall back on cycling, not for any purist environmental reasons, but because people are too frightened to use public transport right now and will want to use their cars.  Although this fear will eventually wear off, the government's real priority is to force people back to work as soon as they can, so some quick fix temporary cycle facilities with bollards and barriers in the road will probably be sufficient. I think Hounslow council are already moving forward with some road closures to help cyclists.

Peter Evans ● 2370d

You put on extra clothes in the winter. Normal clothes, normal shoes on a sensible bike with a waterproof jacket if it rains. Easy. The Dutch PM said yesterday that children should be expected to cycle up to 8 km to school including in the rain. Different mindset. This is a big day.

Edward Seaton ● 2370d

Agree Peter. Haven't been on a bike since I was 11 and not going to start now.  So I won't be going beyond a mile around for a long time. But as soon as I can find a way to get a car safely I will do so. That's the future for me, sadly, as public transport will not be safe for a long time.

Claire Moran ● 2370d

Never been a fan of public transport. Too many smelly people coughing germs, eating and playing music too loudly. Time to get rid of the bus lanes and reduce public transport radically.

Steve Taylor ● 2370d

You’re asking somebody who has cycled to work for more than 15 years all year round. There is no such thing as bad weather remember. Just the wrong clothes. As they say in the Netherlands “ you are not a sugar cube”. Why is walking in the cold or rain any different to cycling in it? People will not be crammed into public transport because social distancing will continue until we have a vaccine. The government does not want cars jamming the streets and it wants people to have a safe way of getting to work so that businesses suffer less. These are the reasons for the  measures announced today, Anyway as Grant Shapps said today, “ you don’t have to be a cyclist to enjoy the benefits of cycling.” Anybody reading this forum who is a pensioner should be cheering that their government will be helping younger people get to work paying taxes and driving the recovery of the economy.

Paul Campbell ● 2370d

All part of the master-plan being introduced, modelled on China, hence the destruction of the economy, industry, jobs and freedoms. Enjoy your ride.

Michael Brown ● 2370d

According to Christian Wolmar there is actually no new money being spent on this by the government. They are just presenting existing programmes as if they are something new. Like so much with the current administration it seems to be all presentation with no substance.

Dan Evans ● 2370d

https://twitter.com/Gathersources/status/1259186238394904579?s=20

Alex Shpinkov ● 2370d

I cycle all year round.  Have done for 15 years.Being on a bike and keeping warm through the exercise is better than standing still getting cold while waiting 10 minutes at a bus stop.

Al Webber ● 2370d

I wonder what Joanna Biddolph thinks about all this.

Edward Seaton ● 2369d

“ Like so much with the current administration it seems to be all presentation with no substance.”Cue Sadiq Kahn

Steve Taylor ● 2369d

Haha, we got there eventually

Paul Fisher ● 2369d

Ha ha. When I was listening to Grant Shapps yesterday I was imagining how my delight would be mirrored by horror in the minds of people like Joanna. It will be interesting to see the reaction to the official policy of her party. Will it be acceptance, denial or defiance? Whatever happens it is a great opportunity for some of her colleagues to step up and help push for lots of local schemes to reallocate road space to walkers and cyclists all over Chiswick. Time to move on now. When are we going to pedestrianise TGT?

Paul Campbell ● 2369d

The sad thing about Paul Campbell and Dr Seaton's reaction to this bit of news is the way they gleefully leap on it to launch yet another personal attack on Cllr Biddolph while ignoring the far bigger issue that her party may be trying to obfuscate just how little new money is going towards sustainable transport.

Francis Rowe ● 2369d

So it is denial for Francis Rowe. “Personal attack”. LMAO.

Paul Campbell ● 2369d

Francis was spot on. Your OCD about Cllr Biddolph and your personal written attacks on her are a matter of record on here and Twitter to name just two of the social media you frequent.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2369d

Many stalkers are unaware of how obsessional their activities can appear to the rest of the world.

Anita Blake ● 2369d

Ewwww. Look it has been an epic race for the past two years. I’ve taken as good if not better than I’ve given. Attack countered by attack. It was a personal highlight this week to be called a “nasty f*ck” by one of Team Anti’s domestiques. But now that the least expected day has happened, opponents lie strewn and vanquished down the mountainside behind me, I stand astride the podium in the winner’s jersey and look forward to quieter days of contemplation of my palmares. Now what streets need opening for walkers and cyclists...

Paul Campbell ● 2369d

Francis in what way does me wondering what Joanna Biddolph’s reaction to the government’s statement constitute a personal attack? She’s the leader of our local council group. Councillor Biddolph spent every Saturday over the summer on the high street campaigning against something which is now official government policy. I hope she swings fully behind the government’s position on walking and cycling! It’s her chance to improve our environment.

Edward Seaton ● 2369d

Hi Paul -Long before the announcement of pop-up cycle lanes yesterday, I had that precise suggestion. You opted to deride it as did many of your comrades. So when I mention it I'm dubbed "Team Anti" and yet when Mr. Shapps announces it you'd think it was the second coming of Christ. I'd imagine your bobbing and weaving along with Matthew's causes horrific whiplash. One thing is for sure that type of how shall we saw, fluctuation, is about as Trumpian as it gets. I also can't help but note your glee in "slapping" down. To me it's arrogance personified as is your claim that all that is needed is new gear. This might come as a surprise to people in your tax bracket which you've publicly boasted about (pure class that one was) but in the aftermath of this pandemic chapter one disposable income - if any - will not be aimed at buying lycra. It will go toward paying differed mortgages, rents, employee wages and continuing to stave off disaster for businesses operating at less than capacity per government mandate. And yet you have the gall to preen on your podium and demand all others get with your program whatever the cost. Here's a thought, given your wealth, why don't you subsidize new bikes for those in need? Too costly? Imagine that.

David Lesniak ● 2369d

You can’t imagine clothes on a bike to mean anything other than specialised Lycra. Keep trying Uncle David. We will make a cycling campaigner of you yet.

Paul Campbell ● 2369d

David, the most important things are a decent HiVi waterproof cycling jacket, and some good gloves.  You will more than pay for those in a month with the savings on not buying a monthly travelcard.

Al Webber ● 2369d

Ho-de-Ho... .. still arguing the toss among yourselves...We don't yet know how she did it – but Mother Nature in cahoots with the Gods has found a way of telling mankind... “Look you twerps if you can't address planet-threatening climate change then I'll bloody well have to do it for you”...Having delivered on her threat it's now up to us to follow-up and make sure we change things big-time!Else she'll be back with another dose for sure...

Stuart Kerr ● 2369d

"Now what streets need opening for walkers and cyclists..."Pavements are open for walkers and always have been, if only cyclists would use the streets rather than pavements🙏 especially now when the streets are almost devoid of traffic. I personally would never call you a "nasty f*ck" because that's crude and vulgar, however you're not a pleasant or polite person to those whose views differ from yours. Now you gloat about an announcement that's yet to become reality - such arrogance. I wonder when you're standing astride the podium in a yellow jersey it won't rise up and hit you where it hurts ?I imagine a great many people on this Forum, if they weren't too scared of being the target of your spiteful, abusive vitriol, would say it's well deserved. The key to winning is being magnanimous in victory and not being arrogant and vicious, as you've just demonstrated. Suspect I'm wasting my time appealing to your better side... assuming there is one ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2369d

Lecturing me on magnaminity and politeness, Accusing me of personal attacks quite literally while attacking my character and yet again demonising people who ride bikes. Defeat has not sharpened your self-awareness.

Paul Campbell ● 2369d

Good grief, I feel so very sorry for you...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2369d

'Here's a thought, given your wealth, why don't you subsidize new bikes for those in need? Too costly? Imagine that.Subsidizing bikes for the needy is an excellent idea albeit not unique with charities up and down the country doing this.  I recently engaged through a charity I support with similar scheme in Scotland.  And whilst I believe that bikes are one of the greatest democratic modes of transport to exist given their relative cost (2nd hand bikes) and scope to travel its useless providing bikes without the safe cycling infrastructure and behavioural change programmes required.I would be delighted to see more people cycling,  a healthier society in general.

Matthew Swain ● 2369d

PC and LP: There have been numerous postings regarding cycling on this website, many of which have ended in personal abuse,Having reviewed many of them the gist seems to be that cycling is a good thing on one side, and cycling would be a good thing if only if some cyclists would adhere to traffic regulations and bye-laws on the other. Here I declare an agreement to both  but would reinforce the latter.By all means cycle but please leave enough room for my car!

Jeffrey Cope ● 2369d

Agree Jeffrey.

Janice Evans ● 2369d

And Edward was it more to do with opposing the chosen route rather than being against cycling.

Janice Evans ● 2369d

"By all means cycle but please leave enough room for my car!"Quid pro quo.By all means drive but please leave enough room for my bike!And an extra. I can't poison you with my exhaust fumes, so please don't poison me with yours.

Ken Munn ● 2369d

Don't you wear a cyclist mask.

Janice Evans ● 2369d

Sorry Ken, life's a bummer, then you die.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2369d

One tube train can carry over 1000 passengers, so with trains at 5 minute intervals, that's 12,000 passengers an hour on just one line. I can't imagine how many bicycles we'd need to get anywhere near replacing public transport in London.

Peter Evans ● 2369d

“ I can't imagine how many bicycles we'd need to get anywhere near replacing public transport in London.”That’s a failure of your imagination then (or really, lack of knowledge).Rule of thumb maximum capacity for a 1.8m wide bike lane is 14,000 people per hour, so more people than your tube example.Bikes already transport more people in London than Circle, Hammersmith and City, Bakerloo and DLR lines put together.However buses carry more people in London than the tube. Bus journeys tend to be shorter than the tube so are more likely to be substituted by cycling.

Michael Robinson ● 2369d

"Subsidizing bikes for the needy is an excellent idea albeit not unique with charities up and down the country doing this"When I heard the announcement on pop-up cycle lanes, I thought of you Matthew because Shapps mentioned charities such as this.Wealthy Paul and Al are still missing the point. Many, many people will not be in a position to lay out a chunk of change for a bike or protective gear, Lycra or otherwise. Credit is most likely already stretched if even there was some. Bus and tube journeys can be paid for in the smallest increments possible. For some, even a travel card is out of reach. So even if it costs more, paying per journey fits into daily/weekly cash flow which is a delicate balance. You need to consider this from the opposite side of the financial spectrum. People can pay the least amount for their daily mass-transit journey and still have money to feed the kids dinner. When faced with a choice, they will not opt to buy a high-vis vest to go with their newly donated bike assuming there are enough to go around. Yet again I will say, an extended Santander network would go a long way toward filling in gaps.Look, Paul, that was a positive suggestion to improving cycle infrastructure much like the pop-up cycle lane idea I proposed probably about a year ago now.

David Lesniak ● 2369d

Safe socially distanced capacity for a tube train is 13 passengers per carriage. Any more than that and you'll die, possibly.

Ken Munn ● 2369d

Ken, if what you suggest were to be implemented the tube system would become financially non-viable and logically would have to be closed.(It's losing money now)With 1.2,000,000,000 journeys made each year by tube what do you suggest? Bicycles? (Could get a bit crowded)

Jeffrey Cope ● 2369d

Given that around 2 thirds of car journeys are under 5 miles and a quarter are under a mile, there is plenty of room on the roads for bikes if we get people out of their cars.

Al Webber ● 2369d

It's not a terrible idea, but not as easy as some make it out.  What happens if you cycle a long way in the wind and rain, or warm weather and are hot and sweaty or soaked through. Do all work places have facilities for people to change and shower?  I'm glad I work from home, I can imagine the levels of office BO are going to skyrocket ;-)

Tania Bapuji ● 2369d

"plenty of room on the roads for bikes if we get people out of their cars."There is plenty of room on the roads if we get rid of the bus lanes. Public transport is a thing of the past.

Steve Taylor ● 2368d

AlI try and walk everywhere but due to health issues and my lifestyle will not be able to cycle and actually need to use my car. There are many, many people who are in the same position as me, would you advocate denying us that facility  ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2368d

Jeffrey Cope "By all means cycle but please leave enough room for my car!"No problem. I'll be in the cycle lane.

Hans Lund-Sorensen ● 2368d

Janice Evans: "And Edward was it more to do with opposing the chosen route rather than being against cycling."The desire line is and has always been CHR.

Hans Lund-Sorensen ● 2368d

Strangely, Tania, the Dutch manage it without smelling of cheese, and their climate is much the same as ours in London.

Ken Munn ● 2368d

Exactly

Janice Evans ● 2368d

What an naive thing to say.

Tony Smart ● 2368d

As someone who is cycled in London for 30 years, it is clear to me that a lot of journeys could easily be done by bike but I am not a zealot about this - I do not like riding in the rain and I could not do my regular supermarket run by bike.It has been a joy to cycle during lock down and even more enjoyable to watch families often with surprisingly young kids all cycling together (that may not be entirely within the lock down rules).  Hopefully habits formed now will stay

Justin Stephenson ● 2368d

Most of London is very flat.  If you take it easy, you don't get very sweaty.  In the summer, with the breeze blowing over you, you will be a lot cooler than on a cramped Piccadilly line train carriage.For a distance over 6 or 7 miles, it will probably be quicker to cycle harder and have a shower at work if you can.  Going slowly enough to avoid getting sweaty will add 10 or 15 minutes to the time it takes over that kind of distance.  Even at the slower pace, it will still be a lot quicker than a rush hour bus, and not that different from the Tube, unless you live right on top of a Tube station.If you do cycle fast, then it is is significantly quicker than the Tube.  The last three offices I worked in in central London were all at least 15 minutes quicker to get to by bike.

Al Webber ● 2368d

Thankyou Justin for what, to me, is a sensible reply. If only some others (who contribute to the idea that cycling is the only answer) would stop and consider the needs of others.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2367d

"Section 114  means that no new expenditure is permitted, with the exception of safeguarding vulnerable people and statutory services. ..."I guess that means that Cycle Highways like CS9  won't go ahead!

Steve Taylor ● 2365d

Completely agree how wonderful it is to see families all cycling now that the roads are less crowded and how good it would be to see this continue.  It is a great shame that some people seem to be so very set in their ways that they just cannot countenance any idea of change.  As someone said earlier the problem is that we do not wear the right clothes for the weather when cycling in the rain or when it snows because we are not used to doing it but in other countries they do and they dress appropriately.  Also  everyone seems to think that cycling only means cycles with two wheels - they don't all have two wheels - sometimes less - but more importantly sometimes more.  There are a variety of cycles available nowadays including electric ones.You don't have to do your shopping on a bicycle - you can do it online and have it delivered.  It is bound to change yet again to make it easier for those who are vulnerable or have difficulties travelling to have their shopping delivered.

Philippa Bond ● 2365d

Good points, Philippa.

Ken Munn ● 2365d

Steve Taylor: "Section 114 means that no new expenditure is permitted, with the exception of safeguarding vulnerable people and statutory services. ..."I guess that means that Cycle Highways like CS9  won't go ahead!From the front page:  The Deputy Mayor for Transport Heidi Alexander had disclosed earlier this week that TfL would have had to issue a Section 114 notice this Thursday (14 May) if funding had not been provided.The government has given TfL £1.6billion which is enough to keep it solvent until September if lockdown is extended.Me: I don't think a Section 114 notice was given?

Hans Lund-Sorensen ● 2365d

Yes you are right. The taxpayer is bailing it out for the moment and its spending will be scrutinised and curtailed. I assume the overpaid salaries and perks will be investigated too.

Steve Taylor ● 2365d

I'm sure that if it was safer that it more likely that children will be able to cycle to school and parents won't need to do all those school runs by car.  They will be able to do them by cycle if they feel they need to accompany their children.  I'm sure you'll get more flexibility in offices as many won't want to go back/won't be able to safely go back to their old working practices.  There'll be more online working from home.

Philippa Bond ● 2365d

I see you out robustly walking with your dogs Loraine - which is really good health wise - and you could check out www.WheelsforWellbeing.org re cycling with any kind of mobility issues (remember I have mentioned it before) - and as you know there is a woman in Chiswick who really cannot manage walking but successfully uses a trike. There are very few occasions you might really 'need' a car in truth. Few people do. And there are many many people who do not own a car but still need to get about to the shops, school and socialising safely.

Ruth Mayorcas ● 2365d

Gosh Ruth, sounds like you're trolling me, but perhaps you can, in the future, not screech out at me as your hurtle past. Shame there's not any speed limit for cyclists as you'd have picked up quite a few penalty tickets.FYI, I don't walk robustly due to health issues, sostop trying to put a spin on the reality to suit your purposes. Oh and one more thing stop preaching and trying to force people to cycle, and no I don't know the woman you're referring to, yet more spin with zero truth from you - so nothing new there then !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2365d

" There'll be more online working from home."and more mental health issues and obesity.

Steve Taylor ● 2364d

The problem is all the sitting down everyone does nowadays - watching TV and using the computer.  Of course you can always start the day doing a workout if you stay at home because you won't have to spend all that time getting stressed and raising your blood pressure on unnecessary journeys to and from work.  You can have Zoom coffee meetings.

Philippa Bond ● 2364d

Or maybe you should make those milky drink usage occasion Zoom meetings.

Philippa Bond ● 2364d

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/ban-hgvs-london-roads-reduce-risk-cyclists-a4443206.html

Hans Lund-Sorensen ● 2361d