Forum Topic

Memories of VE Day

Have other senior posters memories of VE Day, May 8th 1945? If so I hope they are happier than mine. I was 12, living in Leeds, and can't recall what my parents and I did during the day, but in the evening, we went to 'the pictures'.  The trams were illuminated, and we took one to a cinema I had not been to before, as we had seen all the films at nearby cinemas. The show was a piece of Hollywood froth called 'When Irish Eyes are Smiling, starring June Haver and Dick Haymes. Before the film there was a newsreel. These arrived in small provincial cinemas about ten days late, so the content was a shock. We had heard reports of the horrors of Belsen, and seen grainy photos in the  local newspaper, but to see the awful scenes in close-up and detail was beyond anything else. People in the cinema were shouting, screaming, weeping, vomiting even, and that memory has stayed with me for 75 years. I can truly say it changed the way I saw the world.

Arnold Saxton ● 2374d52 Comments

When I was clearing out her belongings after my mother died, I found her diary for 1945. She was living in London and in the Fire Service, but her diary was just full of events like meeting friends, cinema visits (interesting to hear a contemporary review of what are now classics) and not until VE Day did she mention the war at all.

Vivienne Cox ● 2374d

That's shocking that you had to endure those newsreels Arnold at the age of 12 and that the images remained with you. I was aged over 6 on VE Day...and I recall being taken to see Atlee and Churchill on that balcony in Whitehall, watching the parading troops on Victoria Embankment and attending Street Parties in Chiswick.

Jim Lawes ● 2374d

Seeing bomb damaged houses in Chiswick including St Marys Grove, still having black out blinds in my bedroom (destination blinds from a bus!), buses on the High Road towing a gas tank trailer!)ration books,holes in my socks,shoes and trousers. During the War the BBC newsreader read the news twice..second time very slowly. Odd that. When we arrive in the world..we have no idea where we will land! "Jim you're in Chiswick and those explosions are not fireworks!

Jim Lawes ● 2374d

I was 7 on VE Day - during the war the family slept in a big metal shelter with mesh sides that occupied our front room.  My disabled gran slept under the stairs until a large bomb exploded in a nearby street and knocked all the brooms and tins down on her head - after that she slept with her head under the big sink and her feet in the larder!  In the garden next door was a concrete shelter covered in turf shared by several neighbours.  I think we went there when really serious bombing started, tea but not much sleep.  I remember my mother throwing me like a rugby ball through the sitting room doors as a German plane flying low and fast straithed the back gardens with machine gun fire.  Ration books of course but then the joy of the street parties - huge long tables covered in white sheets, jellies and streamers and balloons - just like the pictures on the news lately.  It must have been a terrible time for our parents but we came through all the death and destruction.  And now the World is having to face another terrible event seeking to destroy us.  The ability of humankind to survive these awful calamities is astonishing so I know we will survive this pandemic.  Let's hope it doesn't go on for too many more months before science comes up with vaccines and we can start to live and re-build our various shattered societies and  countries.  As after the two World Wars, none of our lives will be the same - it must be a brave new World that we create from the ashes.

Jennifer Selig ● 2374d

Colourful story that Jennifer.  Rich with description and a good read.  Ta.  So here's another May 8th story – an example of what this Friday in Chiswick might mean to so many others from all over the world..Right now I'm supposed to be in Ontario to simultaneously celebrate VE Day and my Aunt Tosca's 95th birthday.Tosca was born Fedosiya in the Chernigov region of Ukraine.  Friendly British troops changed and anglicised her name in 1946 in order to sneak her back to England.  Smuggle her if you like.  People moved massively around the globe when war came to an end.When she was sixteen in 1941 the German wehrmacht chased the Russian army out of the land where she lived and carried on seizing territory further and further to the east.  Suddenly Tosca was no longer a captive citizen under Joseph Stalin but a prisoner of the Third Reich.Some people get all the luck eh...In 1942 she was put in a cattle truck and taken to Germany to work for Hitler.  She was then lined-up and paraded to Germans seeking slave labour.  Luckily, if you can call it luck, she was selected by Herr Buker who owned the Kaffeehaus Luftkuror  in the Black Forest and needed a waitress to serve his regular SS guests.Who knows what became of her in that time.  One wouldn't ask.  But I do know that Herr Buker pulled a gun on Tosca in April 1945 as the allies approached.  Gagged her and then made his getaway.In 1946 she met up with my mum's brother Harry a private in the British army.  They made their way separately back to England and married in Hackney two years later.So Tosca's VE day was terrifying sudden and euphoric all at the same time...  and came about a few weeks earlier than ours...

Stuart Kerr ● 2373d

Good posts Jennifer and Stuart.Whilst VE will have brought joy to many adults..some will have been pondering the plight of loved ones still battling and suffering in the East... Burma etc. Those that were lucky enough to return spoke little of their terribly experiences..even in later years...too painful to recall.

Jim Lawes ● 2373d

Stuart you should get someone close to your aunt Tosca to write down her life story, even if it's just jotted notes.  It sounds utterly amazing although one imagines there must be many other such astounding tales to be told.  I knew a high born German lady married to a top ranking sub-mariner (I think) who was declared missing, presumed dead.  She had twin baby boys.  Around 1942 the area where she lived with her parents was about to be taken over by the advancing Russians.  Fearful of the women being raped, or worse, her parents forced her and the tiny babies to escape west, they then committed suicide.  Finally the lady managed to get to the British sector where an officer helped her and the babies to get to England.  What a life and what must she have seen and experienced during those years of terror and turmoil?  That grim determination to live and survive is how mankind is still here on earth.  Those of us who come through the Covid virus must ensure we make a better more loving and caring World for all peoples.  Easier aid than done!

Jennifer Selig ● 2373d

"When the crowds gathered outside Buckingham Palace on the first VE day, 8th May 1945, the sound of cheering was almost all that could be heard in the air. But there was another noise which floated above the heads of those celebrating, that of a cheery trumpet playing.It could be heard on broadcasts from the BBC at the time, a trumpeter joyously playing tunes and leading the crowd in a musical festival of jubilation.On the 8th May it's fair to say that those who had heard the news of the official public holiday to mark the end of the Second World War were in a party mood. Properly. And you really can't blame them - for nearly six years the UK had been at war, with over 67,000 civilian casualties.In the BBC recording, we hear the commentary by BBC presenter Howard Marshall as he reported from The Mall on the day. He was there to mark the appearance of the Royal family - including Princess Elizabeth, our current Queen - on the balcony to wave at the crowds.Marshall says, in suitably plummy tones, 'Well, the crowd, I can watch them up The Mall they're pouring into this great space in front of the forecourt. And there's a trumpet playing now, somewhere down below me. And as the crowd swirls, eddies and waits we must take our last look at this wonderful scene; this great tribute to the King and Queen who have so nobly born the hardships and trials of their people in this civilian war. And so we take our last look at this occasion on this most historic night.' "https://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/unknown-ve-day-trumpeter-turns-5639031 And who was that lone trumpeter?I'm sorry if you haven't a clue, it was...Humphrey Lyttleton!

Richard Cathcart ● 2373d

I didn't know that story Richard but it's a good one for sure.  I wonder if there's any recordings out there with the sound of Humphrey's trumpet playing along under the noise of the throng..And Jennifer – not to fear, I sat up with Tosca night after night until the early hours as she related the full amazing and sometimes horrific tale she'd never been able to tell her own children.  But I'd never share it on a social media platform.  Perhaps one day it might appear - but in a much disguised form...And Jim – and Arnold's excellent OP story – I'm mortified I didn't say but I will now...Many thanks.Best thread in town (by a 2 metre jogger's length)...

Stuart Kerr ● 2373d

Agreed. Thanks everyone for sharing their stories and memories.

Kerry Chandler ● 2372d

Where I live, tomorrow night at 9pm after the Queen's speech, we're all going to stand in our gardens or at open windows with a glass of bubbly and the printed words of Vera Lynn's song "We'll meet again ...".  Two stalwart singers are to lead us as we all sing-a-long.  A heartlifting experience and one of hope for the future on a warm and balmy night.

Jennifer Selig ● 2372d

Very enjoyable thread and thanks for posting the first hand accounts.

Keith Iddon ● 2372d

This morning I had phone a conversation with an old and dear friend who has a degree in History from Oxford University. He expressed the view that the people of this Country are still far too obssessed with the Second WW. I was more than a little shocked and could only mumble that "everyone should know the history of their country" but what should I have said?

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2372d

You say "an old friend" Sam. Is he under 70 years old?  In which case he hasn't a clue.You could have told him that many residents in your Ward suffered immensely.

Jim Lawes ● 2372d

history degrees tend to soon be completely lost on most graduates...and elevate a select few...I'd suggest Sam's old friend might have done better to have read Greek art with politics and economics..

Stuart Kerr ● 2372d

Interesting thread,it was before my time and my parents never said much about it although both seem to have hang ups over it,  it always strikesme that it was not really that long ago that Jewish people suffered so dreadfully.  We must make sure it never raises its ugly head again.

Janice Evans ● 2372d

Winners are not allowed to forget and losers not allowed to remember.

Keith Iddon ● 2372d

Never heard that before Keith, it's must be important we all remember so it doesn't happen again.

Janice Evans ● 2372d

In response to Sam: your friend is absolutely correct in so far as our perceived WW2 narrative shapes us (witness the blond one getting it so wrong while booming optimistically in what he mistakenly considers to be Churchillian-speak). Similarly, our view of ourselves as an Empire lacks any balance. We were not a good thing! Our history syllabus should be recalibrated. Very soon.

Beryl Wall ● 2372d

Just want to add that I absolutely loved the VE Day memories from Chiswick residents. Any more?

Beryl Wall ● 2372d

Rather than be celebrating today...I just feel sad...remembering that suffering endured  by our parents and neighbours... With Classic FM playing "Farewell to Stromness" at this moment adds to my tearful moment. Remembering Uncle Ron Hayward (Burma) and those five across the road in Wolseley Gardens.

Jim Lawes ● 2372d

Beryl, what did the Romans ever do for us?

Keith Iddon ● 2371d

To mark VE Day, Radio 3 played Rubinstein's Melodie in F this morning. Apparently it was played on the Home Service 75 years ago. There is speculation that the first line of "We'll meet again" was borrowed from Rubinstein. What do you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHlZjc37qGs

Robert Fish ● 2371d

Robert – yes.  I think that could well be the 'original' We'll Meet Again.  Cherkassky plays it beautifully.  Both this and Vera Lynn's are separately wonderful.  Also - My Rubinstein recording of Ludwig's 4th piano concerto is the only version I ever want to hear....  Meanwhile I just knocked out the following....Funny thing.  Today's a day about memories and remembering.  About exuberant relief.  About hope.  And about profound sadness.  So why did I find myself last night looking back via google at the Nuremberg Trials?I really don't know.  Maybe I was simply peeping round the corner to imagine what all the May 8th 1945 revellers would surely have known as they celebrated and danced that night away – what was to come next?Of course, nowadays we know what happened.  Then they didn't.Victory has never been easy for winners to successfully deal with. What should become of the architects of this war?  The creators of the holocaust?On May 8th Hitler had already been dead eight days.  Goebbels a week.  Himmler was on the run along with countless other mass murderers.  Whilst Goering had been in custody of the Americans for two days having given himself up.  Had he not surrendered he'd have been assassinated for high treason on the command of both Hitler and Martin Bormann.But what of Heinrch Himmler Chief of the SS and main architect of the Holocaust? On May 8th he was a free man.  Yet he had just three more weeks to live.  Check this link for a wonderful short story that's only just setting as history...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-37744100/my-grandad-captured-heinrich-himmler So I re-read the lives and deaths of Goebbels and Goering and then moved on to look at two other infamous psychopaths.Josef Mengele – The warped Auschwitz 'doctor' who terrorised the camp and conducted horrendous ' medical experiments' on the inmates.. D'you know, the bastard (like many others) got away!  There were escape routes used by the Nazis.  Provide by all sorts including :- Argentina, other South American countries, the Roman Catholic church....  Donkeys years later he was even practising as a doctor in Brazil with a brass plate on his front door brazenly reading Dr Josef Mengele.    He died naturally in 1979.  There's loads of stuff on him but try the below if interested..https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/sunday-review/israel-mengele-auschwitz-holocaust.html And then, of course, Adolf Eichmann – organiser of the Holocaust and self-styled deliverer of The Final Solution.Mossad's pursuit of Eichmann and his eventual capture in Argentina in 1960 is a fascinating tale.  I knew but hadn't remembered he was the only war criminal ever executed by the Israelis (1962).  All others were imprisoned...

Stuart Kerr ● 2371d

I take exception to your view of the British Empire - we may have done several bad things but overall we British were good colonists, especially compared with most of the other European countries.  We gave our colonies, as they were then, their legal & educational systems and engineering expertise all of which continues today, expanded and no doubt improved.  We are now the Commonwealth.

Jennifer Selig ● 2371d

Quite Jennifer..Actually I groaned earlier when I read that post.Especially the first part.. How can I put it?Shall I say "inappropriate and totally unnecessary" on this day and on this thread...

Stuart Kerr ● 2371d

That must be the recording with Dorati — wonderful! However, it's the wrong Rubinstein — Arthur, not Anton. For a long time I too thought that the 20th century pianist and the 19th century pianist, composer and conductor were the same person. It took me nearly 70 years to be disabused of the idea. The more I think about it, the more I feel the opening line of "We'll meet again" was not plagiarised from Rubinstein. The raising of the fourth note by a semitone, and the greater leap at the end of the phrase give it a distinctive and more interesting feel. If it was copied, it was improved in the process.

Robert Fish ● 2371d

Last year I found a book called Giants in a charity shop. It is the story of a family of dwarves from Romania who were a very successful musical and general entertainment troupe, but who also suffered awfully at the hands of Mengele and his cod genetics experiments.Anyone doubting his excesses should read it.

Keith Iddon ● 2371d

Will tell my partner about that one, he reads anything on the war or connected to it, don't remember that one so he may not have read it.

Janice Evans ● 2371d

He might enjoy Defying Hitler as well then, Janice.It is a fascinating story of a boy growing up in post WW1 Germany and it explains how the German people were seduced into going along with the madness, and why many young boys and men were so ready and willing to go to war again.

Keith Iddon ● 2371d

Thanks,

Janice Evans ● 2371d

Caught glimpses of BBC1s tribute show this arvo including Churchill's speech..Lots of great archive footage and a lovely diary extract from the time read beautifully by Emilia Fox looking gorgeous in her summer frock..Also a rendition of the moving hymn  “I Vow to Thee My Country”... which has connections to many local girls and a school not very far away from here..Gustav Holst was the first Director of Music at St Paul's Girl's School in Brook Green when it opened its doors in 1905.  He taught there until he died in the mid-1930's.  And amongst much other music he composed his Planets Suite at the school with the girls listening in to its (sometimes noisy) development in the surrounding music rooms...The famous hymn is is of course Holst's variation of his theme from Jupiter set to a rather nationalistic poem (typical of the period) by diplomat Cecil Spring Rice...stirring music...felt right hearing it on VE day...

Stuart Kerr ● 2371d

Defying Hitler — excellent recommendation, Keith.

Robert Fish ● 2371d

Another gem I found in a charity shop, Robert.

Keith Iddon ● 2371d

Never heard of it Keith.. sounds fab..arriving manana via Amazon..ta x

Stuart Kerr ● 2371d

It's been a lovely day remembering.The fly-past, listening to the recordings on the radio.... and finally two hours listening to Classic FM... including the Queen's Speech and Beethoven's 5th (V)(••• -)

Jim Lawes ● 2371d

Jennifer, is there really any such thing as a good colonist? We could have been a (Nazi) German colony. They were full of conviction. They thought they were right. I genuinely do think we should reflect on our past. We are not blameless and, in my view, should be less righteous. I have absolutely no wish to cause offence - and apologies to those who took it.

Beryl Wall ● 2369d

Read The Last Mughal by William Dalrymple, if you haven’t already. It shines daylight on what was a world shrouded in what we call history. A world we plundered to feed Victorian splendour. And let us acknowledge both shame and some heroics from our time in India. Mostly shame. We should really not be so ready to cast ourselves in the role of the benign colonialists. We should also be more willing to acknowledge mistakes.

Beryl Wall ● 2369d

I'm not denying we made mistakes.  However we did leave a lot of good too - not all was bad.

Jennifer Selig ● 2369d

The countries that were part of our Victorian empire have emerged as great nationa, Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, S.Africa  to name just a few.

Jennifer Selig ● 2369d

Beryl, I will ask again at the risk of repeating myself..what did the Romans ever do for us?

Keith Iddon ● 2369d

.. and since you still don't seem to have noticed Beryl, what caused offence was also the sentence you included in brackets.  Your crass introduction of party political tub-thumping at the wrong time and in the wrong place...

Stuart Kerr ● 2369d

Tut, tut, Stuart. I had you down as a person of tolerant liberalism. This morning you seem more like a harrumphing Colonel Blimp. 

Robert Fish ● 2368d

Agree with Stuart on this one.

Janice Evans ● 2368d

Thanks Janice..Robert, now you're getting to be a bore.  I've written as Oscar Wilde on here,  Ethel the Frog, Eric Bristowe, Dame Edna and countless others.  If I decide to play Colonel Blimp for ten minutes what's it to you?Or are you plain at a loss for something/anything interesting to say....

Stuart Kerr ● 2368d

Beryl's comment have not offended me just seemed inappropriate on this particular thread.

Jennifer Selig ● 2368d

Oh dear! Sorry! I was picking up on a comment from Sam Hearn in this thread so did not, at the time, consider it inappropriate - just following a train of thought about our view of our history. I should have known better than to respond to Sam. I am very much aware of the impact of WW2 - and I don’t feel the need to be competitive here about what my parents, my parents in law or family friends went through. As though it needed saying.As for the Romans, Keith, sorry I didn’t respond. I just thought you were being a very naughty boy. Well, like all empire builders, they did this and that (roads, primarily, other stuff and wine: hurrah!) and then history forgot them for a while and others moved in (what did the Vikings ever do for us?). Not so sure what we did. Much good, of course, but also much less so. We should acknowledge it. Oh - now I have to apologise to everyone again. Sorry.

Beryl Wall ● 2368d

My point was like the Romans, the list of our achievements  for the benefit of colonists whilst in power is as long as your arm.

Keith Iddon ● 2368d

KI > "... for the benefit of colonists..."Of course, but what about the natives?

John Whitworth ● 2368d

To me it was not about winning or losing, it's to remember all those who lost their lives.

Janice Evans ● 2368d

Ahh..meant the colonised.

Keith Iddon ● 2368d

After reading the moving accounts here I came across the French news site entries. They too are a very moving read.https://webdoc.france24.com/exodus-france-german-invasion-war-1940/

Katrina Black ● 2367d