Forum Topic

Unintended consequences.

Although the current situation with Coronavirus is appalling, the changes it is going to force on those in power when life finally returns to normal will right more than a few wrongs - we hope. This massive increase in spending of government money to support people in a desperate time with support for business and public services, and the realisation that the people so disparaged as being'low skilled' are a lot of the very people we are looking to to keep the country moving. Delivery drivers, check-out operators, cleaners, care workers, refuse collectors and so many more, and that's without the people keeping the NHS working, and the other emergency services, many of whom do much of this on low wages. Surely the wake up call has at last penetrated that we should value everyone because our lives would be much poorer without these people. Also the role our many lovely parks (not a statutory provision for a local authority)  - looked on for sometime now as an asset to make money for local councils  - have come into their own as the local open space to be valued and enjoyed, hopefully this will not escape the notice of our local representatives and the government.

Vanessa Smith ● 2417d36 Comments

Maybe our business leaders, who until now have thought nothing of jumping on a plane - business class of course - will become used to having their meetings by Skype.  Consequently they may rely less on air travel.  Anyway, in the meantime, hardly any flights is great for our planet.

Micki Hawkes ● 2417d

And employers who mistrust their employees so much that they insist on seeing them sitting at a desk in front of a computer screen for hours on end may finally realize that they get much more productive work out of employees who enjoy working remotely if they are allowed to do so.

Claire Moran ● 2417d

I hope you're right, Vanessa, but have a nasty feeling that when (if) we come out the other side, things will swiftly revert to the status quo ante bellum.

Susan Kelly ● 2417d

Come on Susan, we're trying to be a bit positive here.  Just to lighten the gloom a smidgen.

Micki Hawkes ● 2417d

I thought that September 11th would change everything, but it didn't.

Susan Kelly ● 2417d

Looks like the railways will come back into public ownership - this crisis may yet make socialists of a lot more people!

Vanessa Smith ● 2417d

John McDonnell anyone?

Brian Coyle ● 2417d

Can't you see past any MPs that you personally have taken a dislike to?  There are extreme and objectionable ones in both major parties.  Aren't most of them putting their differences aside to work together to make sure that everyone's interests are looked after?  The big problem is those of them who have no idea how anybody else lives.

Philippa Bond ● 2416d

Brian has his own peculiar reverse version of Godwin's Law. He thinks that all he has to do to put an immediate end to political debate is cry "John McDonnell" or "Diane Abbott".

Robert Fish ● 2416d

"Looks like the railways will come back into public ownership - this crisis may yet make socialists of a lot more people!"Only those with short memories who can't remember how awful British Railways was.

Richard Greenhough ● 2416d

Nationalised railways are far better, more efficient, cheaper and quicker all over the world. They take advantage of our pseudo-deregulated system to run franchises in the UK to harvest profits to reinvest in their own networks and rolling stock. Just because we were crap at it doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Paul Campbell ● 2416d

essage:I'm old skool who can remember BR.When did something described as "crap" ever become a good idea?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2415d

I take it you've never taken the train in Germany, Denmark, France, Austria, Japan, Switzerland, the Netherlands?

Paul Campbell ● 2415d

I am fairly sure some sort of new politics will emerge from all this.  I think ‘Austerity’ will never again be seen as viable.  And I hope a consensus will emerge that wealth needs to be shared far more than it has been in recent years.  And that the extreme inequality that we see in the U.K. and elsewhere will come to be seen as an abomination.

Alastair Banton ● 2415d

When did each of those countries nationalise their railways?

Richard Greenhough ● 2415d

Now i remeber BR The only good thing i got from them was when they went on a national 2 week strike and living out in sussex my dad took me to work and back on a helicopter from Gatwick to Heathrow and used the tube. It was called the G-LINK and ost around £12 one way is i remember. As to BR as a service. Shambles

Julian Pavey ● 2415d

Agreed Alastair. I think it has all become too polarised and we have cared far more about labelling things than we have about finding the right solutions for problems. For many things private enterprise is the right answer but when it becomes an ideology that excludes all other possibilities then it is flawed. There are good reasons for using the biggest most creditworthy balance sheet with the ability to borrow on the most cost effective terms for high cost long-term enterprises. And, as others have said, a society that values the contribution of what we have called "low-skilled workers" and ensures that they have a good quality of life will be a much happier and more resilient one. I hope for a big change in mindset.

Paul Campbell ● 2415d

Oddly, our team, who thought they’d enjoy remote working are missing the social interaction and colleague input face to face. Even worth the commute to get out of the house and away from domestic drudgery! We’ll be running back!

Caroline Carrington ● 2415d

Yes, private enterprise has a crucial role in any economy.  Also there are areas of activity where competition makes no sense and where some form of state control and co-ordination is rational. I have my own ideas about this, but that’s a discussion for another day!  I certainly look forward to the day when workers are paid in accordance with their value to society.Yes we need a change in mindset and real political will.  Let’s hope that something like this emerges from this crisis.  It’s mostly down to millennials to make the changes.

Alastair Banton ● 2415d

Comrades,GOOD NEWS (excuse the language): China: 73,650 people of the 81,218 infected have now fully recovered; and the fatality rate worldwide for those aged under 10 yrs old is still 0. Whilst fatalities in Italy are particularly high (currently 7,503), it’s worth noting that the majority of fatalities are of the elderly with pre-existing conditions, and that the average monthly mortality rate in Italy is approx. 55,000; so yes, we should take reasonable precautions against this fast spreading virus for our own benefit, as well as others, and to help relieve the strain on the NHS, but the mainstream media’s terror campaign should be put into context.

Michael Brown ● 2415d

I'm surprised you believe a word they say Michael.A fair few Chinese people don't but the ones who say so swiftly disappear.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2415d

‘People are behaving as if the Chinese have beaten it. They haven’t’https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-surge-hong-kong-china-uk-cases-a9420876.html

Ben Gemmingen ● 2415d

Did you see this Tonight progamme last night? Never have I been more aware of just how very lucky we are to have our NHS, a fact pointed out by one of the interviewees.Whatever I think of Johnson's crew - Trump makes most people look like geniuses, it is truly frightening.Once all this has passed we really do have to commit to ensuring the government understands that all our public services HAVE to be properly funded irrespective of ideology. Every day we see the people in our society who keep the wheels turning getting on with their jobs, while the tycoons hold their hands out for taxpayer bail-outs, if that doesn't tell us something nothing ever will. Ditto the overpaid, preening footballers and hangers on, while the 'non playing staff' are cut loose. Good for Gary Lineker and a few others who are setting an example, the PFA and F.A. take note.

Vanessa Smith ● 2407d

Its a bit rich (no pun intended) Lineker preaching about others salaries when he has been one of the highest paid presenters at the BBC for years let alone his other gigs

Paul Fisher ● 2407d

Lineker has already pledged two months' salary to the cause. And now someone will criticise him for not making it a year's salary, but how many people have done as much?

Susan Kelly ● 2407d

Quite Susan - it's a hell of a lot more than some of them.

Vanessa Smith ● 2407d

Ryan Giggs and his co-owner made their hotel available to NHS staff needing overnight accommodation.  Considering the ridiculous numbers of hours these dedicated people are having to work it's a very thoughtful offer.

Philippa Bond ● 2406d

I suspect that it is Gary Lineker’s outspoken opposition to Brexit that makes Paul single him out.

Alastair Banton ● 2406d

I am proud of my football club which is giving the NHS access to its facilities and whose star player is using his 50 properties in Notting Hill, Shoreditch and Aldgate to house healthcare workers for free.

Paul Campbell ● 2406d

Oh pleaseThere is always the one who has to make political points when people are dying especially if they can slip Brexit in as well

Paul Fisher ● 2406d

And back to the good old days of British Rail sandwiches, a delectable choice of ham or cheese in white blotting paper.

Richard Bradford ● 2406d

Egg and cress,ruddles county bitter,skol and later Mcewans lager. Oh yes,not forgetting the  miniature bells or teachers with free water jug

Julian Pavey ● 2406d

Yes, but I’m right, aren’t I.

Alastair Banton ● 2406d

If it will make your weekend a little happier then please assume all you wish

Paul Fisher ● 2406d

It's funny when only some politics is considered OK.

Philippa Bond ● 2406d

"I take it you've never taken the train in Germany, Denmark, France, Austria, Japan, Switzerland, the Netherlands?"It is wrong to describe Germany's railways as a nationalised industry. The situation is not that simple. Deutsche Bahn's (DB) railway monoply was removed in 1996.By 2016 DB had lost a third the regional railway market and a similar proportion of the inland freight business.German Railways (DB) and the private operators were long protected from competition by intercity buses. That protection was removed in 2013 and has resulted in a big shift from trains to buses for long distance journeys. As in the days of British Rail, state ownership of the German railways led to chronic under investment by the State in rail infra-structure. Only in recent years have long overdue repairs and modernisation taken place across the German's 20,500 mile rail network; replacing ageing tracks, the 19th-century signalling stations and repairing crumbling bridges and platforms, some of which were said to be close to collapse.It will be hugely regrettable if the debate about how to improve our railway system becomes polarised around the issue of who owns what.However, we must decide if our strange hybrid set up where the track is owned by the Government but the rolling stock is owned by a mixture of private companies and the Government is fit for purpose.  I am in no way an expert on the German railway system and would welcome comments from those who have more recent knowledge of the system.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2405d