Forum Topic

Breaking - All cafes, bars, pubs and restaurants will close tonight.

Johnson says the government is strengthening the measures announced on Monday to avoid unnecessary social contact. Johnson said all cafes, bars, pubs and restaurants must close tonight.Nightclubs, theatres, gyms, cinemas and leisure centres must also close on the same timescale.So there we are,  what a difference a week has made so much for the Herd Immunity strategy.I am glad they made these announcement and glad the the Chancellor will support via our taxes workers.  I am more than happy for my tax contribution to be spent protecting workers income. When this is over I want my tax spent on the NHS.

Matthew Swain ● 2420d35 Comments

Staggering sums of money being promised. I'm not suggesting that there is an alternative, but babes in arms will be paying this off all their lives.Hope people don't rush to the pub tonight!

Susan Kelly ● 2420d

Johnson's government is always playing catch-up. He never gets ahead of the problem.

Ken Munn ● 2420d

I thought Rishi Sunak looked awful, however this is what they all wanted - a case of be careful what you wish for perhaps? I think they are doing as best they can given the ever changing picture. We can only hope that when we look back - those on lower incomes and so-called 'lower skilled' jobs will be more appreciated and be paid properly. Hopefully the government will also see these zero hours contract 'jobs' for what they are and how damaging they are to the people doing them, and the wider economy. Lots of pigeons are now coming home to roost.

Vanessa Smith ● 2420d

Ken, how do you get ahead of a problem that has never existed before?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2420d

But millions of zero hours (non) employees are getting very little support, and I suspect some companies were racing against time to 'let people go' this afternoon before any rescue plan was put in place.  As others have mentioned, it's revealing that most of those now listed as 'key workers' are actually some of the lowest paid.

Peter Evans ● 2420d

"a problem that has never existed before"China. S Korea. Japan. Italy. Spain. France. You learn from others.And in this case, people (me included) have been calling for a lockdown for two weeks or more.

Ken Munn ● 2420d

In some respects we can learn from China but in others we can never accept their anti-democratic philosophy. S. Korea and Japan - dunno. Italy - well that hasn't worked out well. Others, are they any better than us?You've got your lockdown Ken, but I think it's likely to be more than a few weeks (2+)

Jeffrey Cope ● 2420d

Ken loves a panic

Viv Griffiths ● 2420d

Italy 2 weeks ago (4 March):3,089 confirmed cases107 deathsItaly today:41,035 confirmed cases3,405 deathsUK today:3,269 cases144 deathsUk in two weeks:?

Ken Munn ● 2420d

Yep, I've been self-isolating for a good while now, after hearing an Italian doctor in tears explaining the life/death decisions he and his colleagues were making, about who would get treatment and who wouldn't.

Ken Munn ● 2420d

I'm pleased you've chosen to self-isolate, Ken

Jeffrey Cope ● 2420d

We don't yet have lockdown. Non-essential people are still going to work, and people who think they might have it but can't afford to self-isolate are still going in - pictures of standing-room tube trains this morning. A government's primary role is to protect its citizens. This government isn't.

Ken Munn ● 2420d

Isn't the lockdown completely undermined though if you, me and hundreds of others can still congregate in supermarkets up and down the country ?.Until that happens I can't see how a 'lockdown' will ever be truly effective.

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

There were people in the Packhorse and Talbot having a last hurrah tonight...obviously haven't listened to the exhausted and rightfully angry intensive care doctor in a London hospital talking on the radio today about people still going out and thinking its okay....extremely sobering. He's treating people who were infected two weeks ago and already full, not to mention doctors & nurses are going down with it....

Emma Goddard ● 2420d

Yes but it makes no sense that people can't go to a cafe, bar or restaurant, yet are free to congregate in a supermarket.As I've been saying for days now, if you're going to have a lockdown then it has to be all or nothing - close the supermarkets, make them delivery only, the staff can then pack deliveries rather than stacking shelves, cashiers could take calls from customers placing orders, customer orders can be monitored/controlled via technology to prevent selfish stockpiling, and although the risk of transmission still exists it's nothing like what it is from hundreds of people being in supermarkets at all times of the day and night.Instead, because supermarkets are remaining open and online delivery services can't cope with demand, the vast majority of the population is still congregating in supermarkets day-in, day-out...

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

I couldn’t agree more Adam!

Georgina Flint ● 2420d

Adam, logistically what you're asking to happen is impossible. It's cloud-cookoo-land.To my shame, given half a chance, I'd be in the pub at the weekend with I suspect many others. But that's not going to happen now.You can't keep people locked up ad infinitum, they've got to be able to get out once in a while. Not everyone is going to expire from shopping simultaneously.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2420d

Even countries with serious lockdown are allowing people to go out to buy food. There is no realistic alternative.

Susan Kelly ● 2420d

So the 'lockdown' is cloud-cuckoo-land too...Not everyone is going to die from shopping simultaneously, but the same goes for people going for a drink, going to the gym etc.And yes, I accept people don't have to go to the pub, don't have to go to the gym, but most of the time people don't have to go food shopping, or wouldn't go food shopping if there was an alternative...whereas at the moment the only alternative is waiting 3+ weeks for a home delivery.It's like shutting off several small streams, but letting the big river flow uncontrolled.

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

And perhaps that is why places like Italy, which have been in 'lockdown' for 2 weeks now, are still totally unable to get on top of things and are now acknowledging that their lockdowns, which as you say have still allowed people out to buy food, haven't been tough enough ?.

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

Be realistic, there isn't an alternative at the moment and won't be for quite a while.People HAVE to shop sometime. It's not perfect but that's how it is!

Jeffrey Cope ● 2420d

Okay, so I'll be realistic, thousands of people will die and the impact of COV19 will last for many months because instead of being under lockdown lots of people went grocery shopping without any attempt being made to regulate/control the level of such activity or the numbers involved in it.And you're telling me "it's not perfect" ?! - there's understatements and there's taking the p*ss...

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

What exactly are you trying to imply by your last line?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2420d

Adam, 28 million households in the UK, how are the supermarkets going to handle that volume of deliveries? Push that magic 'technology' button?Bit of a silly thing to say in hindsight isn't it?

Nick Hunt ● 2420d

Precisely what it said.Supermarkets must be the most 'dangerous' commercial location to be when dealing with a virus like this.  Yet the only restrictions relating to such premises relate to what you can buy.  Which does nothing to address the fundamental intention of the 'lockdown' which is supposedly to limit the potential spread of the virus.To me, that's abit of a problem...and that's my understatement.

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

To an extent yes, BUT the fundamental point is sound in my opinion - more should have been done to address the obvious risks associated with lots of people going to supermarkets.  I'm not going to lambast someone who has been to the pub tonight as though they're the lowest of the low and are going to indirectly kill people because of their selfishness and yet at the same time walk into Sainsbury's tomorrow with hundreds of others and think that I'm socially responsible.

Adam Beamish ● 2420d

Not just zero hours employees but all self employed/freelancers/sole traders are getting nothing.  We also have mortgages and bills to pay and need to eat.

Claire Moran ● 2420d

Wake up you fools. The virus is harmless to the vast majority of people, which the government knows. Enforced confinement to home is next. Even when the troops arrive on the streets, you still won't have worked it out because you're that stupid.

Michael Brown ● 2420d

China. Cases  81,008 Deaths 3,255Italy. Cases  47,021 Deaths  4,032 Spain. Cases  21,571 Deaths  1,093France. Cases  12,612 Deaths  450U.K. Cases  3,983 Deaths 177 Ken, remind me, in your valuable opinion why is it you say these other countries doing so much better than us?

Viv Griffiths ● 2420d

Which troops are these?  British troops or troops being trained elsewhere and imported.  Do tell.

Viv Griffiths ● 2420d

Flu SeasonCurrent Flu Season: USA: Deaths to date:  20,0002014/15 to 2017/18 Flu Season:UK: Average number of deaths per year:  17,000

Michael Brown ● 2420d

Yes. Hopefully the next announcement from the Chancellor will be support for the self-employed. Probably based on last year’s self-assessment.

Paul Campbell ● 2420d

It is surely unrealistic to make food shopping 100% safe, and it is not possible to stop food shopping. You can make shopping safer though - limiting numbers in a shop at any one time; maintaining separation between shoppers; etc.Similarly it is not possible to stop everyone from going to work.The goal of isolation is limit human contact. The expectation is not that everyone is 100% isolated. The goal is that human contact dramatically reduces - to a point that means contagion drastically reduces. If contagion levels can be reduced from R4 (about 4 people infected from every newly infected carrier) to less than R1 (if you've the virus you infect on average less than one person) then the spread reduces rapidly. And that is the aim, not stopping the virus completely.So it is imperfect. But it is improved by people being responsible. That seems, based on current behaviour, to be an unrealistic hope. Even in France, with 100% lock down (but food shopping still permitted), the levels of irresponsible behaviour is surprisingly high. In the UK, with no lock down, the high level of such behaviour means the virus will continue to spread rapidly.

Alan Clark ● 2420d

A few lines 2 metres apart on the floor inside Sainsbury's would be a start, particularly around the self-checkout 'card or cash?' scrum.  Same on the pavements along CHR would help as well.

Peter Evans ● 2418d

As the weekend showed, the problem is that many people won't stay home no matter what - it does seem that many people are treating this as a paid holiday, but at the same time families are now so unaccustomed to all being at home together that they'll go anywhere to escape their four walls.As I keep saying unless the government clamps down on supermarkets all their efforts will be completely undermined - even if 'elderly' and NHS time was rigidly adhered to by both supermarket operators and their customers, how many NHS workers will be on shift during that short window, if 500 over 70's are queuing up an hour before the store opening then that's going to kill even more people off, and then once that time ends the rest of us pile in a half empty supermarket.One way or another it needs to be properly controlled through whatever means necessary.As an aside, whilst I don't subscribe to most conspiracy theories, I was subjected to the 1pm news today and every single storey was about coronavirus, even the story about the trial of those accused of the murder of PC Andrew Harper.  And we're informed that Harvey Weinstein has contracted it too.  Yet that poor girl gets stabbed to death in a park yesterday and I didn't hear any mention of it on the news.  Similarly a couple of weeks back when Harry & Meghan finally b*ggered off the BBC news was still reporting on an event they'd attended on the Friday on the Sunday news, as though they were contractually required to air reports by Nicholas Witchell and there was nothing more newsworthy.Sometimes even I subscribe to the theory that the media, especially the BBC news, is deliberately only reporting certain things because that's what the 'global elite' (which I believe in although unlike David Icke I don't believe are shape sifting lizards) want us to focus on.

Adam Beamish ● 2417d