Forum Topic

cyclists with no lights

I am all in favour of cycling but am too much of a wimp to risk it in London. There does however seem to be a growing trend from my observation for people to cycle at night with no lights. I regularly seelightless bikes in W4. Do others have similar experiences? What is to be done?

John Martin ● 2429d57 Comments

I don't think its a growing trend, but it does seem that many who choose the no light option seem to favour wearing dark clothes!On the other hand, there do seem to be more cyclists with very bright strobing front lights. While it makes other road users aware of their presence, in someways it also makes it hard to gauge exactly where they are as it can be quite dazzling.

Rob Reynolds ● 2429d

It is illegal to cycle without a front and rear light at night,  I don't see it being a trend however there will clearly be some who will not comply. Police have in recent times conducted stops at popular junctions for cyclists in the city and I support this proportional action.

Matthew Swain ● 2429d

Proportional action would be instituting a Cycle MOT policy where every cycle (known as a vehicle) with access to the road are obligated to comply with basic minimum standards for the safety of everyone.The mere fact Matthew does not take this position can be construed as his being anti-cyclist as his position allows for increased risk of those who chose to cycle.

David Lesniak ● 2429d

" observation for people to cycle at night with no lights."They are just morons with a death wish.

Steve Taylor ● 2429d

"What is to be done?"Let natural selection take its course ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2429d

Natural selection will take care of a few of these loons but the worry is the motorist will still carry the can.What makes me laugh is the large number of bicycles that have no mud guards soaking the seemingly oblivious cyclists right up their backsides.Passing by Fudges I noticed a Brompton for sale at £1000+ listing its features on the ticket one of which was;MUD GUARDS INCLUDED.I ask you!

Adrian Irving ● 2429d

Oh look Lesniak has emerged from self isolation on this forum just to reply to me.

Matthew Swain ● 2429d

"Let natural selection take its course ?"It has. They were selected as morons.

Steve Taylor ● 2429d

i am a cyclist 2 days a week and it does amaze me the amount of people without lights and the ones with flashing lights that blind you, with their highviz jackets, headphones in their ears oblivious to other road users. i think all that fresh air and exercise makes them blind as they ignore traffic lights and zebra crossing!

James Smith-Jones ● 2429d

They are just thickos. There is no other explanation.

Steve Taylor ● 2428d

Now quite convinced most if not all cyclists have a death wish.  They career about in the dark, clad from head to toe in black invisible clothing and not a light to be seen (yet they wear a helmet) - how odd is that?    Thanks to the vigilance and skill of car/truck drivers many escape with their lives - I doubt the cyclist is even aware of the brush with injury/death as frequently shielded from all outside noise by headphones!  High-vis clothing and cycle lights must be legally enforced.

Jennifer Selig ● 2428d

I had one last night duck in on the inside of me, pitch black night and him dressed in pitch black.The mind boggleth.

Keith Iddon ● 2428d

Quite possibly don't want to be recognised,

Janice Evans ● 2428d

There's is a huge difference between being recognised and being seen.

Keith Iddon ● 2428d

Yes that was in reply to them wearing a helmet.

Janice Evans ● 2428d

Hi Matthew - Thanks, as ever, for your tone.Lesniak just wonders why it is you don't care about the safety of your 11-year old children. If you did, you'd want a comprehensive plan to include required safety equipment. Yet you don't care.Pity for your kids.Tell them Uncle David was trying to look after them but daddy didn't give a damn.

David Lesniak ● 2428d

Originally cycle helmets were to protect against head injuries in the event of a tumble.  Most of the face is visible so not very good for going incognito.

Jennifer Selig ● 2428d

No, but just covering the hair can make identity difficult, use your imagination as to why they wouldn't want to be recognised, not for me to speculate.

Janice Evans ● 2428d

"They career about in the dark, clad from head to toe in black invisible clothing and not a light to be seen (yet they wear a helmet) - how odd is that?"Not odd at all. Just accept that these are particularly thick people.

Steve Taylor ● 2428d

Making the helmets compulsory, ala motorcyclists might seem a reasonable step.

Keith Iddon ● 2427d

Read up on the helmet debate properly before you say that.Cars do drive differently around helmeted cyclists - they get closer to them.There is evidence that cyclists ride differently with helmets on.  They tend to take more chances - google risk compensation.The best way to make cycling safer is to get more people doing it.  Compulsory helmets are known to discourage people from cycling.

Al Webber ● 2427d

I do find it odd that many cyclists ride at night with no lights, not just the fact that they are virtually invisible to motorists but that without lights they are unable to see the potholes ahead of them.

Chris Blackwell ● 2427d

No Mr. Webber the best way to make cycling safer is to get cyclists to obey the law.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2427d

Ugh. Uncle David .... creepy and weird. Especially as Matt doesn’t have children. WTF?

Paul Campbell ● 2427d

They are virtually invisible not just to motorists but also to pedestrians and fellow cyclists. In fact when I cycle I find that it is the other cyclists who create most problems for me. Cyclists are silent (as opposed to cars) so when they are about to pass me it's a lot more difficult to notice them. And of course it is even more difficult when they ride in the dark with no lights. And many of those who use lights use super bright lights that actually blind other road users - unfortunately they don't bother to adjust their light to make sure they don't blind others.

Alex Shpinkov ● 2427d

Getting motorists to obey the law would make more difference.For all that I get very annoyed by bikes without lights, I don't remember reading about a cyclist being killed because they had no lights.  On the other hand, I've read about lots of incidents of motorists killing cyclists.I do use lights, and a HiVi jacket, when it's dark.  I do angle the front one down a little as it is very bright. Hopefully I'm not dazzling any motorists, but I do want to be seen.

Al Webber ● 2427d

They should be picked up and made to watch film of themselves or others with no lights.There is some amazingly effective and some very simple gear.  Love the fluorescent/reflective feet!

Philippa Bond ● 2427d

"I don't remember reading about a cyclist being killed because they had no lights.  On the other hand, I've read about lots of incidents of motorists killing cyclists"Would that be because cyclists crash red lights, go down one way streets the wrong way or at intersections when traffic lights are against them veer onto the pavements then veer back onto the road without looking behind them ? I witness that kind of cycling every day especially at the Heathfield Terrace and CHR intersection.Just asking, tin hat at the ready 😉

Loraine Pemberton ● 2427d

Ugh. Uncle David .... creepy and weird. Especially as Matt doesn’t have children. WTF?Paul, you have kids, don't you?Bob and weave all you like, disparage my "creepiness" because yours is so much better. Ignore the topic in favor of casting aspersions.But still, it is you and Matt et al who believe endangering your kids in the absence of regulation is a good idea. Not me.

David Lesniak ● 2427d

"The best way to make cycling safer is to get more people doing it"More people participating in unregulated activity. That won't end well.

David Lesniak ● 2427d

Someone mentions cycling and low and behold,out comes the diatribe.

Tony Smart ● 2427d

‘“Disparage my creepiness”. A childless middle-aged man tells people to tell their kids to call him “Uncle David”. Ugh ugh ugh.

Paul Campbell ● 2427d

"More people participating in unregulated activity. That won't end well."youtube.com/watch?v=DDLb6biq39A

Guy Lambert ● 2427d

Totally creepy and weird 'Uncle' Dave.

Matthew Swain ● 2427d

Thanks for the link, Guy.As mentioned on another thread, it was pointed out cycling in Holland is subject to regulation. I think it was NV Brooks who was good enough to point out those facts.I'd have thought a councillor would be more interested in safety and the truth. Oh well.

David Lesniak ● 2426d

"I don't remember reading about a cyclist being killed because they had no lights.  On the other hand, I've read about lots of incidents of motorists killing cyclists."I'm pretty sure that more cyclists are not killed is down to the skill of the motorist!  After all the motorist is the one who would be blamed, never the invisible cyclist!  Of course invisible risk-taking cyclists are going to get themselves hurt and killed if they persist in throwing themselves under the wheels of large, big motorised cars, lorries and buses!

Jennifer Selig ● 2426d

Of course it's subject to regulation (like here), not least deemed liability (if a car mashes up a cyclist, driver is responsible, likewise if a cyclist mashes up a pedestrian - though of course the latter is more or less unknown)

Guy Lambert ● 2426d

"Of course it's subject to regulation (like here)"Guy, with respect, whatever regulations for cyclists are in the UK, they're NOT enforced in any shape or form. Why dont you meet me at 7am any morning Monday to Friday at the junction of Heathfield Terrace and CHR and witness the overt and prolific breaking of the Highway Code by cyclists, you can also witness those of motorists, although that will be short list, are you up for it ?In the interests of transparency I've also made the same offer to members of HCC and other Forumers- no takers so far, I wonder why ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2426d

Because it's a stunt.Perhaps you'd like to spend some time overlooking a cyclist only zone at any traffic light and see how many motorists respect it?To be fair, many motorists are too busy doing their texts and emails.But then, inattentive motorists regularly kill people. When a particularly unusual cyclist does it's front page news for a week.400 people in the UK killed annually by collision with a car. 2.5 by collision with a bicycle

Guy Lambert ● 2426d

"To be fair, many motorists are too busy doing their texts and emails"I love swipes like these. As if nary a cyclist has been seen sitting up, no control of the handlebars, scrolling through emails or music, etc. all while pedalling along with earbuds in dressed in all black.Ditto this tidbit:"likewise if a cyclist mashes up a pedestrian - though of course the latter is more or less unknown"Guy, please explain how a lack of accountability will ever result in meaningful data. Hell, if I get a parking ticket there is a record of it.

David Lesniak ● 2426d

"Because it's a stunt."No stunt, an honest and open request to you to witness some of the dangerous manoeuvres some cyclists make on a daily basis. However, do carry with your warped views, I'm advocating SAFE cycling whereby the Highway Code is obeyed by cyclists and all other road users. It would appear you're not... ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2426d

How are you advocating exactly?

Tony Smart ● 2426d

Ah,wondered when you'd show up and as if by magic here you are 😉You clearly have a selective memory... 1) Redesign the junctions at Netheravon and CHR as well as the safety nightmare that is Fishers Lane, Duke Road, Dukes Avenue and CHR.2) Cyclists to obey the Highway Code, you know little things such as not crashing red lights or cycling the wrong way along one way streets, weaving in and out and changing lanes, and my particular favourite is that they stop at pedestrian crossings instead of swerving around Pedestrians. The same applies to motorists.I'm sure you'll put your own twist and spin on the above - feel free to knock yourself out, but I'll leave you with this thought not all cyclists are safe, law abiding people and the reason there are very few reported cases of dangerous cycling is because they cant be identified and they just peddle off. Motorists too should be penalised for dangerous driving.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2426d

Redesign the junctions at Netheravon and CHR as well as the safety nightmare that is Fishers Lane, Duke Road, Dukes Avenue and CHR.Redesign how? Am interested in your advocacy plans for CHR in particular and how you want to implement safe cycling.

Tony Smart ● 2426d

TonyGive it a rest, you're presenting yourself as a tiresome fanatic. This has been  debated at length by both experts and pseudo experts as well as the residents and businesses this will affect, and probably adversely.Do you and your fellow cyclists and supporters want an unsafe,flawed design or something that really is fit for purpose and provides a safe, lucrative environment for all stakeholders in Chiswick ? Or are you so hell bent on 'as long as we get our cycleway we don't care about anyone or anything else' whatever the perceived negatives ?Tony, sorry to say  in my opinion, you've signed up and pushed through a third rate scheme that in all probability will ultimately, and sadly  have a negative impact, of course I maybe wrong.  Let's hope for the residents, businesses and cyclists of Chiswick I am. However, if I'm not I see a strong possibility of a bleak future. Enough, let's wait and see shall we.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2426d

Good to know, Matthew, advocating for safe cycling regulations is creepy and weird whereas turning a blind eye to its absence is not. But do carry on with your barbs.

David Lesniak ● 2426d

That was a long way to say you can't answer my question.I probably wouldn't be calling myself an advocate.

Tony Smart ● 2425d

"That was a long way to say you can't answer my question"Answer your own question.You've presented yourself as an expert engineer. The plan as is, is less than ideal. What would be ideal?

David Lesniak ● 2425d

2.5m protected cycle lane on each side of the road with bus stop bypasses and left turning traffic held at every junction and continuous footpaths with zebras at every side road.

Tony Smart ● 2425d

So, Tony, why aren't you advocating for that? Why do you criticise anyone pushing toward that ideal when you, yourself, recognize its better?

David Lesniak ● 2425d

Cause I know what ideal is and others just pretend the give a shit.

Tony Smart ● 2425d

Would you like to advocate for that Lorraine / David?No parking, footpath taken from each side of the road, longer bus journeys?That's the impact it would have. It was the first thing TfL looked at.Am open to option c which you are yet to disclose.

Tony Smart ● 2425d

Tony, I noticed whilst driving out of town on the M4 they have dropped the Smart in favour of Digital Motorway.Reminded me of CS9 being re-branded to CW9.What do they say? You can fool some of the people some of the time........

Adrian Irving ● 2425d

In that the first, overhead, section of the M4 out of Chiswick has never had either hard shoulders or safety refuges, does anyone know its accident record ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2425d

It does though have a 40mph limit unlike the sections of smart/digital motorway after J3.

N V Brooks ● 2425d

I used to use it during rush hour twice a day and breakdowns and bumps were not uncommon creating longish delays and tailbacks.Being the caring soul that I am I used to swear under my breath at the motorist when passing some clapped out motor broken down on the elevated section.

Adrian Irving ● 2424d

Haven’t you got more important things to worry about Uncle David?

Paul Campbell ● 2424d