Forum Topic

Bedford Park doctors closing ...

The doctors at Bedford Park surgery looks to be closing ...https://pam.ealing.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=dates&keyVal=Q2Z3DXJMFVC00

David Grantley ● 2460d33 Comments

I hope that they take premises nearby. I have been using them for years — not very often before you ask!

Carl Wynne ● 2459d

I was very shocked to read this today, particularly as my family and I have been using this surgery for more than fifteen years.I urge everyone who uses it, or who cares about local amenities/facilities to object in the strongest terms. Not sure how much good it will do, but there is a link at the bottom of the news story to the Ealing Council page, where you can log your objection.Let's try and stop this from happening, or at least ensure there will be a nearby replacement where the doctors from Bedford Park can continue to do the wonderful job they do.

Mark Edwards ● 2459d

I might be wrong on this but when making objections to this plan it may be pointless to raise the issue of provision of GP Services.Assuming that Dr Keen owns the house he can't be obliged to always run it as a surgery and is perfectly within his rights to convert it into flats. It is up to the NHS to ensure local facilities are available.It may be that the Ealing Council planning committee has no power to block this application even if it leaves the area bereft of health provision.That probably means any objections need to focus on the plans themselves being inappropriate (which may be difficult as the property is clearly designed to be residential) or the application itself being invalid. The latter seems the most likely to succeed as there is clearly something amiss with the way the consultation has been handled. The bit of Chiswick that is in Ealing seems to be largely forgotten by the council and the local councillors don't seem to be as proactive as the ones on the Hounslow side who, whether you agree with them politically or not, would never have let the closure of a surgery reach this late stage without raising a stink. However, getting the application blocked on the basis of inadequate publicity would possibly only postpone closure  but that at least would give the NHS more time to arrange alternative provision.

Francis Rowe ● 2459d

Wasn't the plan to consolidate all/ alot of the local GPs into the health centre when that is redeveloped? Or something along those lines?

Rob Reynolds ● 2459d

Although they are very close by the Bedford Park Surgery and the Chiswick Medical Centre are covered by different commissioning bodies. Whether they co-ordinate in terms of provision is hard to know but it is unlikely that the Hounslow commissioning group would have planned for his during the closure of the medical centre.

Andrew OSullivan ● 2459d

On the question of change of use, I remember that it was standard practice in Hounslow to require residential buildings used as doctors' surgeries to return to residential use in the event of them ceasing to be used as surgeries. I accept that this application may be different as it seeks to convert the residential property into flats. If this was the previous use I would expect approval to be virtually automatic. However, if the property was previously a single unit this change could be grounds for objecting to the planning application. Not knowing the specific location I don't know whether neighbouring properties are individual units or flat conversions.

John Connelly ● 2459d

As a patient who has been registered with this surgery since 1976 I have sent them an email inviting them to have the courtesy to tell their patients what is happening. I await their response.

Lynette Royle ● 2459d

This is the reply I have just received.“Dr Keen is retiring at the end of the year, and as the property owner he is currently considering all the options regarding the property. There are no planned changes in the services provided by The Bedford Park Surgery and patients can be assured that their care will continue as it has always done. Similarly there are no planned changes in staff, apart from Dr Keen's retirement. Patients and staff will be kept informed if there are to be any changes regarding The Bedford Park Surgery and its situation. In the meantime please rest assured the surgery is not closing.Thank youThe Bedford Park Surgery”

Lynette Royle ● 2458d

This directly contradicts the Design and Access Statement submitted to Ealing Council which says it is planned to close the surgery. Dr Keen seems to have remained very quiet on the matter so far.

Francis Rowe ● 2458d

I was told efforts were being made to get the deadline for responses extended. Does anyone know if they met with success?

Anita Blake ● 2457d

There doesn't appear to have been any official announcement but the date has been changed on the Ealing Council site for the end of the consultation period. It is now March 3rd rather than last Wednesday.

Dan Evans ● 2456d

It doesn't seem there would be anyway to stop this happening through the planning process so the NHS probably has to start thinking of contingencies. With the Chiswick Health Centre also closing  there are going to be serious shortages. What is unclear is if Ealing borough residents would be allowed to sign up with the new health centre planned by the Hounslow area NHS as the interim replacement for the Chiswick Health Centre.

Paul Corcoran ● 2456d

Ealing Council have agreed to do a re-consultation, rather than just extend the existing consultation. All comments already made will be carried over. I have spoken to the Deputy MD of Ealing CCG (Clinical Commissioning Group) and they are aware of the issue, but confirm the message that the Surgery has put out that there are no current plans for closure. Clearly if the change of use is granted that may change-it may change soon, it may change in a couple of years? There would be a process with considerable lead times.It is though a good point that in the location(s) we are talking about, different CCGs operate. There are plans to combine all the CCGs, but that would not happen for a while yet, but in this instance it would be helpful.

Andrew Steed ● 2456d

Not sure that it is right to be so sanguine about this matter. There are current plans to close the surgery - that is literally what the planning application is about. Quite what the owner's intention is remains unclear and we haven't heard from him but it from what people are saying it seems unlikely the application will be turned down. As the owner has employed an architect, drawn up detailed plans why would it take a couple of years for those plans to be implemented once permission is granted?

Francis Rowe ● 2455d

What I've heard about this is that Dr Keen is not retiring but planning to concentrate on the much more lucrative Now Medical business he runs which assesses medical needs for housing for various local authorities including Ealing.  I have no specialist knowledge of these matters but there doesn't seem to be any reason why he couldn't start the process of winding up the surgery the day after he got planning permission so assuming there will be a few years before closure may be optimistic. Even if he chooses to keep it open it will operate in a kind of limbo which will be difficult for staff and patients alike.

Andrew OSullivan ● 2455d

Have not read through this thread but just wanted to say each doc's surgery is a private company - the NHS nor the local council controls whether there is or is not a surgery.  That's waht makes it so hard when new flats are erected for thousands of new people bjt no additional medical facilities are put in place - if a doctor doesn't see fit to try and open a new GP surgery there, then no one can force them!  Daft system in my opinion but there it is!  Thanks I think to Tony Blair's contract with GPs.

Jennifer Selig ● 2455d

I think I agree with Francis, Andrew and Jennifer, and this is where the Surgery has been at fault: no one knows what the intentions of Dr Keen are, and although the Surgery has put out re-assuring messages, you do not go to all the trouble of putting in a planning application for no reason. So of course that is a worry for people who have been using the surgery for years.

Andrew Steed ● 2455d

How do you know the planning application is not for an extended surgery with extra living space for staff or even private rent to augment Dr Keen's income?

Jennifer Selig ● 2455d

'How do you know the planning application is not for an extended surgery with extra living space for staff or even private rent to augment Dr Keen's income?'Because the planning application says so.

Tessa Russell ● 2455d

OK thanks Tessa. I should have read the entire message from the OP.  As that is the case, why can't Dr Keen come clean and let his patients know?  Has the applicaton for change of use been accepted yet?  Maybe it won't be but if Dr K doesn't want to continue running a surgery ....What next?  Sell it as a going concern or , or ??

Jennifer Selig ● 2455d

Jennifer, if you read the news item on the front page a lot of your questions will be answered.The situation creates an unpleasant dilemma for existing patients. Whatever soothing words are coming from the practice there clearly is a risk of closure. That raises the question of where they could register as an alternative. The Chiswick Health Centre is closing and relocating further away so it may be that the GP practices based there wouldn't be able to take them.There is also the question of whether Ealing residents can register for Hounslow GP services. If they can't then, to the best of my knowledge that would leave the Acton Lane Medical Centre and the Chiswick Family Practice on Southfield Road as the only two options. Whether they would have room for an extra 3,000 patients remains questionable. Given the uncertainty it may be worth considering switching now if possible just in case lists quickly fill up.

Anita Blake ● 2454d

I haven’t read all of the contributions but the point of inadequate consultation reminds me that the first time I found out about it was by chance when I happened up St Albans Ave and saw the notice of redevelopment posted some way up the road, well away from the property to which it referred. I could not see any notification in front of the property.Much as I would regret closure of BPS I agree that it is well within his rights for John Keen to redeveloped the property. One could also argue that, having prospered from the operation of BPS, Dr Keen could take a philanthropic view and keep the Surgery going as a public service.

Bill Reed ● 2453d

It is possible for a GP practice administered by Hounslow e.g. any of the ones in the Health Centre, to take on patients who are normally resident in Ealing. It is at their discretion and they may not all have extra capacity but it is a big facility with at least three practices based there so there is some reason for optimism. The question for many will be if they would want to register there give the likely move to Stamford Brook.

Dan Evans ● 2453d

It is something of a prisoner's dilemma for existing patients. It would obviously be better if everyone stayed registered but the risk is there will be no places left at other local surgeries if they don't hurry. However, this could accelerate the closure of the surgery which might never actually have been going to happen.

Andrew OSullivan ● 2453d

I have received a text this morning from the surgery with a link to a statement on their website to reassure patients that they are not closing, that the planning application is just a contingency plan and that no staff changes are planned!

Lesley Ward ● 2453d

I've been registered with Dr. Keen for 18 years and when a friend rang the surgery on 10 Feb, he was told Dr. Keen was retiring and Drs. Mendes da Costa and Hornibrook were taking over his patients.  I had an appointment on 13th Feb but in the meantime decided to register with another practice closer to home who assured me my appointment would be honoured as the NHS allows a four week overlap between registering and de-registering.  However, when I turned up at Bedford Park for my appointment, I found it had been cancelled and I had been taken off their records and could not be reinstated.  They also told me that Dr Keen was retiring and the other two Drs would take over his patients.  When I asked why we had not been advised of this there was no explanation.  This seems to contradict the notice on their website.

Susanna Harrison ● 2453d

Someone suggested to me that Dr Keen was trying to keep the plan secret and would have got away with it unless a resident hadn't spotted the briefly placed site notice a couple of days before the deadline for responses. This seems highly improbable as it is the Council not the applicant who is responsible for publicising applications. If it is just a contingency plan it might have suited him well if it had sneaked though Ealing's rather opaque planning process unnoticed. However, that was always going to be a long shot and in retrospect he would have been much better off notifying his patients of his exact intentions before putting his application in.

Francis Rowe ● 2452d

The issue with the surgery could be its profitability. When it was set up 20 years ago there were far more families in the area and GPs get extra for treating children and maternity services. Otherwise there is a flat fee per patient of around £150 per annum. Demographic change in the area means that the registered patient list has got on average older and therefore more likely to use GP services which means the cost per patient goes up. The flat fee means that the practice gets around £400,000 per annum due to the number of patients. There will be other income but basically with other costs that might be pretty tight if you are paying 3 GPs a salary.Maybe Dr Keen genuinely is weighing up his options and waiting to see what changes, if any, this new government makes to the way GPs are funded because it is clear that nationally the service is in crisis. However, it is likely that Johnson and Cummings will divert NHS funding to building new hospitals which they will regard as monuments to their own greatness. Neither of them has the attention span to focus on the nuts and bolts problems of day to day community health provision and Matt Hancock doesn't have a spine therefore will not argue with whatever they decide.

Dan Evans ● 2451d

If there are 3,360 patients registered with the practice then the basic income of the surgery would be over a half a million. There are probably other sources of income on top of that so if you total up the cost of three GPs, a practice nurse, admin staff, utility bills, maintenance etc. the practice probably makes a reasonable amount of money. The average number of patients per GP nationally is 2,000 so even if Dr Keen was to retire they would still have more capacity and, with the closure of the Chiswick Health Centre, the demand will be there so I don't think it can be said that the practice isn't commercially viable.  However, it isn't simply a case of how profitable it is or could be — if the owner can make more money for less effort by developing it then he probably will.

Kevin Howard ● 2451d

Permission is granted so patients at the surgery will find out if the surgery is to be redeveloped or if Dr Keen submitted the application just for fun.Interesting to see that the NHS were quite relaxed about it. They now seem to prefer larger medical hubs rather than old style local doctor's practices. Not sure many Bedford Park residents will be that pleased if they have to go to Acton but most will probably switch to doctors at the Chiswick Health Centre.

Francis Rowe ● 2424d

It would be good if the surgery could make another official announcement so that we know where we stand.

David Marles ● 2424d

So, what about the text message that was sent out on the 17 February? The Bedford Park surgery IS NOT CLOSING?Obviously a complete lie, which is not good coming from the NHS...

Mark Edwards ● 2424d

The message sent from the surgery said 'for the forseeable future'. That was before planning permission was granted. The future is a bit more forseeable now so they may want to update but as Dr Keen isn't apparently due to retire until the end of the year closure probably isn't imminent.

Paul Corcoran ● 2423d