Forum Topic

20 mph speed limit

The results of the recent survey confirm what anyone can see, that drivers are not observing the new 20mph limit. I suspect it is not so much they are not aware of it but they just choose to ignore it. I have seen council rubbish trucks and buses on South Parade and up Acton Lane clearly doing more than 20 so what hope is there that other drivers will be any more observant. If you make a law it must be enforceable or come with an extensive programme of public education as there was with seat belts.

Paul Hughes-Smith ● 3376d105 Comments

You've answered your own question Paul.Just painting large 20 signs on the road and leaving it at that won't get drivers to slow down.It's quite difficult to drive at 20mph when you are used to higher speeds.I've been passed by cyclists when doing 20mph on Thames road.Without enforcement,things won't change

Andy Pease ● 3376d

Last Friday I turned right by Murco Garage up Acton Lane  and few sends later a bloody great black Range Rover started flashing his lights and honking the horn and gesticulated to get a move on. Clearly signed on road and with lollipop signs 20 mph....If this speed limit is going to work it needs enforcing.

Loraine Pemberton ● 3376d

Enforcement most unlikely whilst police numbers are being cut because of 'austerity'.

Ken Munn ● 3376d

Much the same in Fauconberg Road. Very few, if any drivers take the blindest bit of notice of the pointless white painted signs on the road.

Brian Coyle ● 3376d

Ken,police would not/could not enforce speed limits on minor roads like this.Traffic Units have been decimated.Since speed cameras have sprung up on virtually every main (and some minor) roads,dedicated traffic units have virtually disappeared.There are now about 15 different types of camera in use on British roads.And despite the fact that these cameras were only supposed to be sited at accident spots,a lot of these cameras now measure your average speed over a matter of miles.I've never heard of anyone having an accident over 2 miles.Once again,it's all about the cash,not the safety.How many drunk drivers have these cameras caught ? Even the motorway patrols have largely disappeared.Being replaced by highway agency staff who drive around in copy cat police cars.They are tasked with clearing motorways following accidents etc.But their sole purpose seems to be to keep the road closed for as long as possible.And cause havoc

Andy Pease ● 3375d

Motorbikes particularly bad.  Some must be doing 60 at least

Claire Moran ● 3375d

Is there a map somewhere which shows The boundaries of the whole area. I drive down Wellesley Road today from turnham Green to Kew bridge and could see no signs.

Elizabeth Jane Daley ● 3375d

If I've got it right, it's every road in the Borough, except trunk roads like the A4, A316, N Circular, etc

Ken Munn ● 3375d

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/20mph-speed-limit-manchester-stopped-12706663

Mark Perry ● 3375d

one of our roads was dug up and resurfaced last month but the repainting did not include the big 20's in the middle of the road. Now the road at the front is covered in 20's but the road at the side has nothing, so I am doing 25.

Andrew Craig ● 3375d

"it's every road in the Borough, except trunk roads like the A4, A316, N Circular, etc"That's the intention, but it's a phased implementation. Currently we have a mixture of:- 30mph areas, such as Elizabeth's route via Wellesley Road- 20mph zones under the borough-wide scheme such as Turnham Green Terrace/Bath Road/Bedford Park- 20mph zones around primary schools implemented before the decision to go borough-wide, such as on the Glebe Estate.

Richard Jennings ● 3375d

It's quite difficult to keep to the 20mph speed limit on Acton Land and Southfield Road. You get drivers travelling up your behind and parts of Acton Land (e.g. The stretch south towards the Murco garage, seem to encourage faster speeds). It's much easier on the side roads, but we often get local taxi drivers bombing past with no regard for motorist. There is also a particularly aggressive owner of a black Mercedes coupe who seems to think 20 mph is for anyone but him.One other point. There needs to be something done about the poor visibility at the junction between Somerset Road and Acton Lane.  The visibility when emerging on to Acton Lane is extremely poor. extending the double yellow lines by a couple of metres on either side would resolve the issue. It's an accident waiting to happen.As a motorist and a cyclist I think the 20 mph restrictions have made a difference. We just need to get better at changing habits.

David Sindall ● 3375d

Thank you Richard, I really wasn't sure but there didn't seem to be any 20mph signs around and all cars were going faster but then I find they do in the major roads like the High Road and the avenue  - am sure it will improve but more education needed.

Elizabeth Jane Daley ● 3375d

Ditto drivers on mobile telephones, jumping red lights and, of course, cyclists on pavements. One of the problems about making a song and dance over, for instance, enhacing penalities for drivers using mobile telephones and then not enforcing it is that people are even more likely to break the law.

Charlotte Kasner ● 3375d

According to R4 Today, traffic police have been cut by 30% (not sure over what period) and are often tasked away from traffic to deal with other incidents.

Ken Munn ● 3375d

It will work and it won't work. It only takes one person to stick to the limit and everyone else will for a while. They have no choice. People will only ever complain about when it isn't happening though. It is human nature. When did any of you last watch a football match and said to your mate "That ref had a great game"?

Jimmy Laing ● 3375d

Yet another ridiculous idea from a discredited Mayor ( Bojo) how this daft initiative has kept going when many others didnt, I have no idea. Ah, maybe its to keep people in work tendering for painting signs on roads and putting yet more useless road signs all across the borough..Next up of course will be the need to "properly enforce" this ridiculous speed limit , presumably out to the Gov 's favourite outsourcer , SErco, who will gladly do this, by taking a nice fat revenue share on drivers committing heinous crimes of driving at 23 mph.AND finally, when in five years time the promised reductions in accident rates dont happen , there will be calls to reduce the speed limit again- 15 MPH anyone?!I

Tim Garfoot ● 3374d

PCSO's and 2 members of the public are on the Avenue with a speed gun monitoring motorists and letters will be sent out to those speeding with a warning. I think one of the PCSOs got my point that the speeding has increased since the one spped bump was put in about half way down becasue more people now come over the speed hump and floor it thus the average speed has risen or some know its in place and late at night like to do a Collin Mkrae over the bump. The members of the public i am not sure agreed as they said nothng but they most likely do not live on the road. Understanding speeding and the increase of speeding from my side is more the solution than monitoring. Maybe another speed hump each side each way is the likely answer as many have definatley upted the speed since the one single hump was installed rather than a steady speed from the majority. Noise is an issue with speed humps especially HGVS and the E3 bus later at night when its more quiter

Julian Pavey ● 3374d

"Yet another ridiculous idea from a discredited Mayor.."Isn't the decision on whether to bring in 20 mph limits at the discretion of the local boroughs ? Lewisham seemed to be doing it some time before Hounslow.

Richard Greenhough ● 3374d

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/17/20mph-limit-dangerous-costly-reverse-council-admits/

Mark Perry ● 3235d

Put speed camaras up.

Nicholas Beard ● 3235d

Yes, the DT doesn't like 20mph limits. RoSPA have a different view: https://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/speed/20mph-zones-and-limits/But then they'rs experts. What do they know?

Guy Lambert ● 3235d

My usual route takes in Sutton Court Road and I find people are generally keeping to the limit.  If someone is daft enough to start tailgating me, I have absolutely no problem in slowing down even further, just to majorly p--- them off even more. 

Micki Hawkes ● 3235d

On the contintent I often pass through 20kph zones by schools or villages. Put in say 4 cameras in each zone and people will obey the limits.

Nicholas Beard ● 3235d

http://www.20splenty.org/

Ruth Mayorcas ● 3235d

"But then they'rs experts. What do they know?"And still they have no root cause analysis of the accidents. Just the numbers of casualties and some blind statements like "20mph zones significantly decrease the risk of being injured in a collision and their greater use, especially in residential areas, would help to reduce the number of traffic injuries in the UK.". But 10mph zone would decrease the risk even further. And 5mph with a man with a flag walking in front of cars will do even more. On the other hand, they  refer to the 'especially residential areas', while we can see introduction of 20mph in busy roads with bus services.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3235d

When start to get black boxes in our cars one thing that is noted is speed. If eratic driving is noted it is Red Flagged. This can result in your insurance ringing you. If they do you will be charged £250.00 for the call. So it seems the insurance companies see speed as contributary factor.

Nicholas Beard ● 3235d

"When start to get black boxes in our cars one thing that is noted is speed. If eratic driving is noted it is Red Flagged. This can result in your insurance ringing you. If they do you will be charged £250.00 for the call. So it seems the insurance companies see speed as contributary factor."Nicholas:1. Did I write anything about supportinb 'eratic driving'? 2. Speeding is often a contributing factor. However, speed limits must be sensible and justified. 20mph unfortunately in most cases is not.3. Unjustified limits actually reduce road safety.4. I have no black box in my car. I've been driving for 33 years and am fortunate enough to stay away from accidents. What am I doing wrong?

Alex Shpinkov ● 3235d

Plenty of reports all over the country that 20 mph not only faiils drastically, it actually increases accident rates.Dont say I dont tell you so.!!\still, the council blindly follows the opportunity to spend a bit more of our money in job creation -- what the world, and chiswick really needs is MORE ROAD SIGNS; MORE NUMBERS PAINTED ON THE ROAD ; MORE "OTHER THINGS"  IN THE ROAD - its ludicrous. Still, this is nothing compared to the  cycle highwayBS which will blight the high road for the next 3 or 4 years !

Tim Garfoot ● 3235d

20mph limits make sense in some places, but they are overdoing them.If you look at somewhere like Sutton Court Road, it is a bus route, and it is also the main route from large parts of Chiswick and Acton onto the A316.  It doesn't makes sense as a 20mph.What makes it worse is that it actively encourages rat running along Staveley Road.  When that was 30mph, the extra distance didn't matter so much at a higher speed, but with the new limit I use Staveley Road every time.Have the residential roads like Staveley Road as 20mph, but keep the roads that actually go somewhere as 30mph.  that way it will encourage people to stay on the more major roads.There is also no point in having them if they aren't going to be enforced.

Al Webber ● 3235d

Couldnt agree more with your points Alex. Horn Lane and Victoria Rd Acton absolutely ridiculous 20 mph limits. Wellesley Road, probably a good idea. Get the feeling they've let some spotty youth in the highways dept loose with a map and colouring crayons. Hopefully in the future they'll have a serious rethink.

Stephen Gould ● 3235d

'Hopefully in the future they'll have a serious rethink. 'Hopefully... Unfortunately it's us who pay for all their initial 'thinking' and further re-thinking.(((

Alex Shpinkov ● 3235d

One reason given for a blanket limit is that it would avoid confusion between whether one was in a 20 or 30 zone, and cut down on street furniture and associated expense. Seems to make sense.

Ken Munn ● 3234d

Repeat:One reason given for a blanket limit is that it would avoid confusion between whether one was in a 20 or 30 zone, and cut down on street furniture and associated expense. Seems to make sense.

Ken Munn ● 3234d

Faster speeds in urban environments increase pollution through increased acceleration and deceleration and mean reduced road capacity as well (assuming drivers actually leave minimum stopping distances between them and the vehicle in front)What would be the difference in journey time between reaching a maximum speed of 30mph compared to 20mph going along Sutton Court Rd.  Maybe 30 seconds? Hardly seems worth it.  There was an article earlier this week about "black boxes" installed by insurance companies for higher risk younger drivers but it seems they will be increasingly used for other drivers as well.  Data from these boxes seems to show a correlation between speeding and collisions.https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/16/motoring-myths-black-boxes-telematics-insurance

Michael Robinson ● 3234d

Correlation between speed and collisions. 20mph right across the town. 50 mph on motorways. Less fuel used. At 40mph on the motorway I can get 80mpg.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

At 20mph I wouldn't be able to drive my newish Fiesta in 3rd gear.  I don't know about adding to pollution in that scenario but it sure as heck is blowing my own MPG to pieces. The 30mph speed limit has been in force for how many years?  Braking systems on cars are vastly superior to even 20 years ago let alone 40, so why reduce to 20 mph? It obviously doesn't improve safety (very few if any observe it) so why bother.

Derek Hill ● 3234d

> Braking systems on cars are vastly superior to even 20 years ago let alone 40Braking distance has been reduced but thinking distance hasn't. At 20mph thinking distance is 50% of total stopping distance. At 30mph it's 40%.The only way we reduce thinking distance is assistive driving systems or autonomous vehicles.

Alex Muller ● 3234d

Derek,What happens if you try to drive at 20mph? In my (probably older) fiesta I could drive at 20mph quite happily in 4th let alone 3rd, so long as I wasn't accelerating. And that was with just 4 gears in total.

David Turner ● 3234d

I disagree. This make even less sense. It just emphasizes how bad and useless the 20mph decision is.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

The newer cars tell you when to change up or down. At the end of a run mine gives me marks for gear usage atnticipation etc. Also available is a report that tells you what you should be doing. For example when I first vacumn cleaned it with a cleaner you plug into the car it told me I was leaving the engine to idle for too long. I had to deselect the auto shut off in order to let the engine idle to use the cleaner as it plugged into the car. Some time ago I heard that there was a recommendation to remove all cars over a year old from the roads. It never got very far though the manufactors backed it though.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

'At 40mph on the motorway I can get 80mpg.'And you can get even more at 30mph.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

20mph in real driving conditions mean more pollution. Most cars don't have the right gear to constantly and efficiently drive at 20mph. And most pollution comes from acceleration - which (again - in real life) are more frequient if you try to follow 20mph.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

That is very right. Thanks for that info it is easy to overlook these tech aspects.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

I tried thirty but it was a bit too slow for a motorway in that it got boring and I was over the moon with 80mpg.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

Mine trickles along quite happily at 20 in third. And why if, at that speed, I'm doing the max permitted, would I then need to accelerate? The 20 mph limit is more about what goes on inside the driver's head, than what's happening under the car's bonnet.

Ken Munn ● 3234d

Happily doesn't mean efficiently

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

The onboard computer shows instantaneous fuel consumption of between 70 and 80 mpg when 'trickling' at 20 in 3rd. Seems pretty efficient to me.

Ken Munn ● 3234d

With stop-start urban motoring, reaching higher speeds like 30mph means *more* acceleration and deceleration and more pollution, not less.A given number of cars travelling at 30mph takes over double the road space of cars travelling at 20mph, assuming drivers leave the minimum stopping distance.  And given the average occupancy of cars in London is just a bit over 1 person per car, that is a huge amount of space taken up by a small number of people.Car engine emissions are optimised for non-stop cruising at speeds above 50mph therefore are lousy in urban conditions where stop-start is inevitable.However some people seem to think we should be designing cities based upon what car manufacturers produce rather than the car manufacturers producing better vehicles for urban driving.

Michael Robinson ● 3234d

I agree. People just dont like 20mph. I think 12mph would be suitable.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

"Data from these boxes seems to show a correlation between speeding and collisions.https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/16/motoring-myths-black-boxes-telematics-insurance"Driving 30mph where 30mph is allowed is not speeding. There is no hard evidence that 30mph is unsafe in areas where this speed limit has always applied.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

"A given number of cars travelling at 30mph takes over double the road space of cars travelling at 20mph, assuming drivers leave the minimum stopping distance. "This is a misleading statement. The road throughput at 30mph is slightly higher - assuming drivers leave the minimum stopping distance.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

I don't know if you are being serious, or just trying to wind people up, but 40mph on a motorway is not safe.

Al Webber ● 3234d

40 mph is ok there is no minimum speed limit in the highway code. It it over 50% of the maximum speed limit. I was on a driving course and the police said they would be very pleased if everyone drove at 40-50mph.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

“The road throughput at 30mph is slightly higher - assuming drivers leave the minimum stopping distance.”No it isn’t, as simple maths demonstrates.Stopping distance for a car travelling at 20mph (32  kmph) is about 12m.Stopping distance for a car travelling at 30 mph (48 kmph) is about 23m.Therefore a car travelling at 32 kmph will take 1.35 sec to travel 12m so a capacity equivalent to 2,666 cars per hour.And a car travelling at 48 kmph will take 1.73 sec to travel 23m so a capacity of 2,087 cars per hourAn increase in speed from 20mph to 30mph therefore means a reduction in capacity of over 20% in term of cars per hour as well as doubling the road space required.The energy of a moving object is proportional to the SQUARE of the velocity so an increase in speed by 50% means the energy required to stop the car more than doubles.  The stopping distance therefore increases at a faster rate than the speed of the car. This means a decrease in road capacity both in terms of road space occupied and cars per hour.

Michael Robinson ● 3234d

'I was on a driving course and the police said...'Is that the course you may elect to go to when you are caught speeding?

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

No it was a 2 moonth course.

Nicholas Beard ● 3234d

And now replace the theoretical extreme numbers with the actual/recommended distance between travelling cars.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

Michael, in peak times, it's not the speed that affects how many cars you can get through.  It's the pinchpoints at junctions and roundabouts etc.  Whether you are doing 20mph or 30mph, you will just join the back of the queue at the next junction or set of lights.Off peak, capacity isn't a problem.Either way this argument is essentially irrelevant.

Al Webber ● 3234d

The figures I used are from the Highway Code therefore are the recommended distances.http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/answers/what-is-the-stopping-and-braking-distance-of-a-car

Michael Robinson ● 3234d

They are the safe braking distance, but not the recommended gap between vehicles. The simplistic calculation method you've used shows for example that your 'throughput' at 70mph is a lot less than at 20mph.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

When I am riding my bike at 20mph (cruising speed) I pretty much always beat the rest of the traffic in London whatever the speed limit.So my tip is if you want to go faster, and you really have any interest in pollution, get a bicycle.BTW Speed limits are not applicable to bicycles as they are not motorised.

Will Watson ● 3234d

"So my tip is if you want to go faster, and you really have any interest in pollution, get a bicycle."Good idea Will. Unfortunately not very well  suited for me as I work about 30 miles away from home and have to commute every day in any weather. And not suited for my weekly shop either as I would have a problem trying to carry 2 large bags with groceries on my bike.

Alex Shpinkov ● 3234d

And what fraction of that 30miles does the 20mph limit apply to?

Will Watson ● 3234d

Again, you should do basic sums before posting.For example, this website says:“As a rule of thumb, leave a metre for every one mile per hour, between you and the vehicle in front – for example: 70 miles per hour, leave 70 metres.”http://tips.drivingtestsuccess.com/learner-car/learning-to-drive/safe-driving-distances-motorway/So that equates to a capacity of 1,600 cars per hour -:a lot less than the capacity at 20 mph.You still have the misconception that going faster means more capacity but allowing for stopping distances, it simply isn’t true.  It just means a smaller number of drivers travel quicker between A and B. To maximise capacity, what you could to is attach a car to the car in front to minimise stopping distance and call it a train.

Michael Robinson ● 3234d

Nicholas,it is extremely dangerous to drive on a motorway at 30mph.fast moving traffic suddenly coming up on slow moving cars are forced to brake hard,or change lanes to avoid rear ending the car in front.

Andy Pease ● 3234d

Well said, Andy. Even driving at 40 mph on a motorway (unless reduced speed limits are in force) is dangerous as it will probably cause the drivers of artics to have to brake and then accelerate to overtake, thereby adding to pollution. Nicholas sounds like he would be happier on single-carriageway A-roads.

Richard Greenhough ● 3234d

2 large bags on a bike - easy peasy - add in a front carrier and a back pack and you can carry £100 of shopping - I manage andI'm of a certain age!

Ruth Mayorcas ● 3234d

It seems that there is a 30 mph minimum in Ireland on the motorway but no minimum in the UK.  However I notice someone was fined or banned for a while for driving at 10 mph. You can be penalised for going too slow and hindering other traffic.Here are some rules and regs for different vehicles:  https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Philippa Bond ● 3234d

For people who "can't" or "find it difficult" to drive at 20mph - stop driving now. You are unable to control your vehicle.For people who speed because they have someone behind them who wants to go faster - stop driving now.    If you went to Sainsburys and did NOT want to buy cheese but I came up behind you in my wheelchair and kept shouting "Buy cheese buy cheese" then would you ?  No...For people who find refuge in the red flag reductio ad absurdum I wish you would stop driving now as you are the people speed limits are aimed at. Still console yourselves in your complete collection of Top Gear and the warm feeling that accidents happen to other people.

David Grantley ● 3233d

David, I do hope you collect a speeding ticket. ;-)

Richard Greenhough ● 3233d

I agree David. Remember its still ok to do less than 20mph if you wish.

Nicholas Beard ● 3233d

"Remember its still ok to do less than 20mph if you wish"I remember when it was the norm to expect drivers to adapt their speed to the state of the road and traffic, which meant that sometimes it was OK to do 30, and at other times it was more appropriate to do 20 or less. It has never been appropriate to deliberately prevent other drivers from reaching the signposted speed limit, except in an emergency situation.

Richard Greenhough ● 3233d

"It has never been appropriate to deliberately prevent other drivers from reaching the signposted speed limit, except in an emergency situation."So when the signposted speed limit is 20 mph what's the problem?

Ken Munn ● 3233d

"So when the signposted speed limit is 20 mph what's the problem?"Nicholas wanting to use his car as the equivalent of the man with the red flag.

Richard Greenhough ● 3233d

Which, at 20 mph in a 20 zone, he should be doing.

Ken Munn ● 3233d

"Which, at 20 mph in a 20 zone, he should be doing."Except he said - "..its still ok to do less than 20mph if you wish"Obviously if conditions require it, but not if the road is empty in front of you just to annoy other motorists.

Richard Greenhough ● 3232d

But I think you're putting words in his mouth.

Micki Hawkes ● 3232d

The reason why most drivers ignore it, is because it's a ridiculous speed limit.

Steve Kelly ● 3229d

20mph is fine if road conditions demand - narrow road, close to a school  but leave it up to the intelligence of the driver to drive sensibly according to road conditions.  20mph can be infuriating in the wrong place and often dangerous.  Do we all have to be told everything by faceless busybodies and do-gooders .  Please allow drivers to be responsible for their own and others safety.

Jennifer Selig ● 3228d

People generally need some sort of guide. I disagree with 20mph since I saw the 20kph on the continent. I would like that here. The Swiss have eliminated the risk of motor vehicle acidents outside some schools by banning motor vehicles totally by closing the roads.

Nicholas Beard ● 3228d

40 mph not safe on a motorway. Fact, it was announced today that self driving cars will be allowed on our motorways by the end of the year and LIMITED TO 37 MPH.

Nicholas Beard ● 2007d

I would be happy in a self driving car on a motorway at the proposed legal limit of 37mph.

Nicholas Beard ● 2007d

After you Nick. Let me know when you driven 10000 miles and I might try one.

Chris Vessey ● 2007d

The technology is still in its infancy. Sadly marketing is king.

Philippa Bond ● 2007d

I have driven round about six hundred miles in one. It's called lane correction. When you get out of the centre of the lane you are in you feel the steering wheel pull. Of course if you dont have hands on the wheel then it turns. It's very good. A lot of cars now apply the brakes for you if you get too close to the car in front as well. Cruise control although old is now considered essential on a long journey. So times are changing.

Nicholas Beard ● 2007d

The car won;t be limited to 37mph.  The self driving technology will cut out at 37mph and the driver will have to take over.The idea is that it will drive itself in slow, queueing traffic.  It won't change lanes either.40mph is still dangerous on a motorway if traffic is moving freely.

Al Webber ● 2007d

When I see the 20mph limit signs I simply set my cruise control to 20mph and relax. Sorts out the "I find it difficult to keep to 20" problem immediately.

Chris Blackwell ● 2007d

Lots of cars do not have cruise control.

Richard Greenhough ● 2007d

If you drive on motorways extensively you'll note the majority drive somewhere around 75-80, that is the tacit speed limit or range. I've never heard of anyone prosecuted for doing 80 on the motorway.The majority work out what is the sensible appropriate speed and do that.The 20 MPH limit is just too slow for the majority of drivers who find it so slow as to be dangerous to try and maintain concentration.They would be better off just enforcing the 30 limit.

Craig David Mcdowell ● 2007d

Slightly off topic but someone mentioned uniformity for ease. I wish they would apply this to most Council initiatives. CPZ timings for starters. Bus lane timings too, where they haven’t been removed for the benefit of cyclists.

Maggie Dodge ● 2006d

We find that the majority of drivers have managed to reduce their speed to 20mph and it is the minority who still have a problem with it or don't think it applies to them.

Philippa Bond ● 2006d

"The 20 MPH limit is just too slow for the majority of drivers who find it so slow as to be dangerous to try and maintain concentration."Try harder."The introduction of 20 mph zones was associated with a 41.9% (95% confidence interval 36.0% to 47.8%) reduction in road casualties, after adjustment for underlying time trends. The percentage reduction was greatest in younger children and greater for the category of killed or seriously injured casualties than for minor injuries. There was no evidence of casualty migration to areas adjacent to 20 mph zones, where casualties also fell slightly by an average of 8.0% (4.4% to 11.5%)."Effect of 20 mph traffic speed zones on road injuries in London, 1986-2006: controlled interrupted time series analysisBMJ 2009; 339 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.b4469

Ed Saper ● 2006d

The 20mph limit should be policed in residential roads where it is most needed. That would soon slow cars down. There is no policing in Chiswick, yet ANPR cameras to fine locals for accessing their roads are quickly installed. So many motorists just let rip when they see an open road having been frustrated by so many closures and no go areas on the main roads. It's a mess.

Mandy Waters ● 2006d

You could get a speed display sign installed perhaps? Starts at €1khttps://www.sierzega.com/en-us/products/product-viewer/gr33l-cl

Ed Saper ● 2006d

Lets reduce it to 5 mph and have our man or woman servant walk in front with a flag. Lets just ban cars and use public transport or better walk.I'm sure this will have a positive impact on the safety statistics.

Craig David Mcdowell ● 2006d

Has a date been set for moving back to caves and hunting for food with clubs - sorry I gave away my sheepskin coat now!

Jennifer selig ● 2006d

Lets take the speedometer out of our cars, and work on the same rules as the cyclists. Silly idea, so is taking away a whole lane for cyclists that they don't use, causing huge traffic hold ups. but they did it. Although apparently there are some suggestions that actually the cycle lane is  being used by thousands on a daily basis

Maggie Dodge ● 2006d

Some of us will remember when the motorway speed limit in the whole of UK was actually REDUCED to 50mph and when the RAC and AA patrolmen saluted members as they drove by but that doesn't mean that we can also remember men with flags walking in front of cars. Change happens.

Philippa Bond ● 2006d

There should speed cameras.

Nicholas Beard ● 2006d

Craig, now you're talking good sense. You win £100

Chris Vessey ● 2006d

Jennifer, that was a daft thing to do you'll need it !

Chris Vessey ● 2006d

Maggie, are you at it again ?

Chris Vessey ● 2006d

I remember seeing that "interview" with the bus driver used to justify the removal of the cycle way on safety grounds in case he got hit by a bike because he forgot to look.But ask drivers to slow down a bit and show the data showing a near 50% decrease in the number of kids killed in 20mph zones, and they're up in arms at the inconvenience and unfairness of it all!As if they're the victims and not the dead and injured kids.

Ed Saper ● 2005d

What I like about this old thread is seeing Andy Pease name at the topit made me think of all his interesting posts, do miss them.

Janice Evans ● 2005d